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  #2526  
Old 11-25-2014, 02:41 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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  #2527  
Old 11-25-2014, 04:38 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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One of the glaring issues this expansion is the lack of damage in both the Enhancement and Elemental spec. Multiple beta testers said that damage felt low, but they were only met with a Blue Post saying they were overpowered but didn't know it.

While low damage numbers are an issue, I think the real issue is that Shamans seem to be left behind in terms of character development. Shamans used to be the Horde counterpart to the Paladin, the spiritual leaders of the Horde. When BC released I was excited to see that each class would be allowed to evolve without counterpart balance holding them back. But what seem to have happened is that the Paladin turned into an amazing class while the Shaman sat on the sidelines.

Look at what the Shaman has lost over the years. Pre-BC we could tank dungeons. We used to have the option of using a two-hander. Bloodlust used to be our signature raid buff. Worst of all, our Elemental mastery was taken away and given to every class, then replaced by Deathwing's Toenails.

Looking at the Shaman talent tree leaves so much to be desired. The level 45 talent line in particular, where we have to spec into moving totems, our signature ability. Instead of having multiple amazing benefits to choose between, we seem to have more useless spells. The level 75 talent line comes down to just healing bonuses for each spec.

Overall the Shaman community seems to be dwindling. The forums, while not the greatest place for impartial information, seems to be full of posts asking for answers. General chat in the starting areas is full of people saying not to roll a Shaman.

On one hand we have low DPS numbers getting us kicked from Heroics, and on the other we have lackluster uninteresting spells filling our talent tree. The truly sad thing about all of this is that simple small changes could make a world of difference. Heck, just giving the Enhancement community a minor glyph that made them look like they were holding a two-hander would make them jump for joy. Even a Blue Post in the forums just saying they are looking into the problem would give so many hope.

The most depressing thing about all of this is how unlikely it is that Blizzard would be willing to make large sweeping changes at this point in time. It feel like we wont get any sort of rework until another expansion launches. Shamans lost their identity and character direction. The game is 10 years old now, and nobody seems to know what to do with a once iconic class.

TL;DR

Shamans lost their identity and character direction. It seems like so much has been taken away from them, without proper replacements. People are rerolling, and Blizzard seem silent on the issue. Also when will Trall use totems?

Shaman Forum Post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...46063?page=1#0

EDIT:

Guys this post isn't to complain about low damage numbers, I'm talking about class changes. Look at how much other classes have changed throughout the years in comparison to the Shaman class. Of course Shaman DPS will be buffed, what I'm saying is that Shamans can be so much more. My favorite idea from this thread is Kenzai's idea of rune system for each element.
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Shaman have largely been ignored or dead last in the development cycle. Every expansion I keep waiting for the Shaman revamp, only for it to never happen. We should have gotten ours after the Pallys go theirs.... considering how similar those two classes are, it doesn't make sense that Pally's get a resource like Holy Power but they leave us alone.

At one time, I thought the simplistic nature of our spells/rotation was a good thing... but now it clearly holds us back with a lack of depth in our gameplay and talents that are boring and have no real effect on our abilities/rotation or change up how we play the game (like spriests L100 talents, or any resource themed tier).

Pallys got a rework, Locks got one, Druids got one.... where is Shaman? Why do we keep getting ignored? Some of those classes got reworked TWICE in two different expansions, but Shaman get nothing.

We have so many outdated features.

-Shocks and Wind shear at 25 yds? WTF? Why aren't they 30yds baseline like every other ranged spell in the game. Why didn't they bake that glove bonus in, instead of make it a glyph that no one has room to use.

-Totems. So much you can say about these. They suck now, they have ZERO advantages but so many disadvantages. At one time, they had no CD or max of 15 sec, making them easily replaced if killed. Now they have both long CD's and long durations, making it harder to replace and locking you out of other totems of similar element (like when you use SBT or the new Storm Elem).

Totem talent tier is total garbage too, we should have some basic tools to fully utilize our totems. Totemic Projection should be baseline, maybe even Totemic Persistance too... and they should just delete the totem talent tier and redesign it with a new theme like mobility or something. We have no cool, unique, and powerful totems anymore either. They have gutted Tremor totem, unfairly. Tremor totem should be useable while feared, but with a 1.5min CD. Healing Stream needs to have smart healing again as its just so useless when it randomly heals someone at 90% instead of 10%.

-Our L100 talents are so bad for DPS. These took no real thought or creativity to come up with. They do not add anything new or interesting to our gameplay, no depth to our rotation, no change in our playstyle. Storm Elem does both shitty damage and healing, very slow, and its Primal effects are damn near useless (whats the point in a movement speed bonus that is limited around the Storm Elem?). Liquid Magma has random targetting, breaks CC, and can hit mobs up to 40yds away that we haven't even pulled.

So stupid. New totem talents was not the answer. We needed SPEC SPECIFIC talents, unique for each spec like many other hybrids got like Druids.... to really add some depth to our gameplay and give us some options on how we want to play our spec.

The class is a mess. So outdated, so clearly last priority for the devs. They are clueless about the direction to take this class.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments...aman_identity/

What they said.

I'm strongly considering dropping my new Shaman already because, sweet Christ, it's terrible. Nevermind the damage numbers (which, in fairness, Blizzard are aware of, changes inc according to a Tweet earlier) but the Class itself just feels bland. I know the Paladin Holy Power changes resulted in mixed opinions but, overall, they were a good change that the class needed. Shamans need something similiar at the bare minimum but, really, they need a Warlock Style revamp at this stage.

Last edited by Hammerbrew; 11-25-2014 at 04:48 AM..
  #2528  
Old 11-25-2014, 04:45 AM
belorealah belorealah is offline

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  #2529  
Old 11-25-2014, 05:03 AM
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I know we saw these ages ago, but they put up a tier 17 preview earlier.

I did enjoy looking at them all again (even though you can see pieces of it through the dungeon journal, of course).

As time has gone on, some of these have grown on me. I actually rather like the mythic monk now (still think the regular/heroic monk set is dumb looking, though if I ever get it for my monk, I may grow to like it. With the helm disabled, at least. I could get used to the rest, but that helm is ugh). And I vastly prefer the normal/heroic paladin to their mythic (which isn't bad, but it just doesn't seem as cool to me, even with the weird floating/forming crystal shield thingies).

And I finally realized what the rogue sets reminded me of: Ghosts from Starcraft (especially the mythic). Probably due to the whole gas mask and one-larger eye/lens thing.

edit: Also nice little hotfix note, they've changed it so bodies will despawn at their normal speed again, instead of vanishing much faster. I did have a few times where I killed several things at once and had their bodies vanish faster than I could have looted or skinned.
Mythic armor still annoys me. I mean, doesn't Mythic get enough unique accolades already? Heroic doesn't get anything unique to it that also isn't available to Normal (aside an ilevel tier, which is all relative to your own raiding tier anyways). Normal gets achievements and set armor over LFR, Mythic gets unique achievements, a garrison monument, guild rewards, and the typical final boss mount over Heroic. And now the latter also gets epeen armor. Where's the love for Heroic raid guilds!?
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  #2530  
Old 11-25-2014, 05:38 AM
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Now that the levelling is out of the way, and I have nearly full lvl 100 garrison followers...

This expansion's kinda rubbish. Professions are worthless (Yeah, I'm using three reroll stat items precisely because I wanted the same worst stat combo, but with more of my worst stat...), Gathering professions even more so, long heroic queues, dodgy class balance... Seriously, this hasn't gone well at all.
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  #2531  
Old 11-25-2014, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments...aman_identity/

What they said.

I'm strongly considering dropping my new Shaman already because, sweet Christ, it's terrible. Nevermind the damage numbers (which, in fairness, Blizzard are aware of, changes inc according to a Tweet earlier) but the Class itself just feels bland. I know the Paladin Holy Power changes resulted in mixed opinions but, overall, they were a good change that the class needed. Shamans need something similiar at the bare minimum but, really, they need a Warlock Style revamp at this stage.
understandable.. I dropped my rogue for the monk coz they always feel the same as the expansion before it. I am only now picking it up. Thing is they mostly do those things (rework) in major patches and this is sort of the Shaman expansion. In a way. :/ (cataclysm was too).

I can't even bother to lvl my ele shaman at this point ( i just have him for the garrison resources so no time wasted )
  #2532  
Old 11-25-2014, 05:57 AM
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Totems should go join auras.

(I also need my elementals to look like those found on Draenor.)
  #2533  
Old 11-25-2014, 05:57 AM
Torch Torch is offline

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understandable.. I dropped my rogue for the monk coz they always feel the same as the expansion before it. I am only now picking it up. Thing is they mostly do those things (rework) in major patches and this is sort of the Shaman expansion. In a way. :/ (cataclysm was too).

I can't even bother to lvl my ele shaman at this point ( i just have him for the garrison resources so no time wasted )
As in Cataclysm, as a Rogue, whose first "main alt" was a shaman, I absolutely feel your pain at being ignored so often.
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  #2534  
Old 11-25-2014, 06:09 AM
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Now that the levelling is out of the way, and I have nearly full lvl 100 garrison followers...

This expansion's kinda rubbish. Professions are worthless (Yeah, I'm using three reroll stat items precisely because I wanted the same worst stat combo, but with more of my worst stat...), Gathering professions even more so, long heroic queues, dodgy class balance... Seriously, this hasn't gone well at all.
Andddddd there we go, exactly what I was saying was going to happen (or I was afraid was going to happen)

Seriously concerned about the quality of this expansion at endgame.
  #2535  
Old 11-25-2014, 06:59 AM
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Andddddd there we go, exactly what I was saying was going to happen (or I was afraid was going to happen)

Seriously concerned about the quality of this expansion at endgame.
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Originally Posted by Torch View Post
Now that the levelling is out of the way, and I have nearly full lvl 100 garrison followers...

This expansion's kinda rubbish. Professions are worthless (Yeah, I'm using three reroll stat items precisely because I wanted the same worst stat combo, but with more of my worst stat...), Gathering professions even more so, long heroic queues, dodgy class balance... Seriously, this hasn't gone well at all.
I'm quite enjoying the endgame, thanks. Heroics are a bit of a tedious trash slog but that's mostly just a gear issue right now (although the slew of fatal environmental damage could be dialed back). I'm in love with garrisons. The daily apexis missions are actually far more interesting/fun than I was expecting. Professions are rather lame but they've been a minor gameplay element since Cata, and I do like how everyone has some vanity thing or another to craft. And I really enjoyed the exploration content and I still have maps filled with treasures I still have to go out and collect. Hell, there's so much to do, I barely have enough time to finish up Nagrand, and that's awesome.

Class balance is pretty horrid though, I'll hand you all that one. Probably a bad idea to do the squish and the button trim at the same time. That's a pretty poor excuse though, especially since a lot of the current issues are dial tuning. With the mammoth length of WoD's beta there's really no excuse. And that's on top of everyone who's upset at how their class design has changed, e.g. every arms warrior I know has pretty much switched to glad stance instead. If Blizz changed the kit without preserving the original design, that's all on them, and bad design IMO.
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  #2536  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:05 AM
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Totems should go join auras.

(I also need my elementals to look like those found on Draenor.)
I want that frost elemental so bad for my mage. Or, even better, make them update the current models. Warlock demons included.


RE:Endgame — much is gonna change once raids are opened. Balance passes will happen and people will find something to entertain themselves with.
  #2537  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:42 AM
DerpiusMaximus DerpiusMaximus is offline

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My problem with endgame is that I feel like if I'm not playing my main, then I'm wasting my time. There's just so much to grind if you want to get things. I probably won't touch my various alts for a long time.

I feel like this expansion is even less alt friendly than Mists.
  #2538  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:46 AM
Vaximillian Vaximillian is offline

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My problem with endgame is that I feel like if I'm not playing my main, then I'm wasting my time. There's just so much to grind if you want to get things. I probably won't touch my various alts for a long time.

I feel like this expansion is even less alt friendly than Mists.
Well, I only got to level and play my horde of alts (no pun intended) after my mage was relatively geared up and cleared SoO several times. Also it was she who had earned my CM golds and cute phoenixes along that.

WoD isn't very alt friendly (and which expansion really had been?), but having several alts who will provide your main with resources is still kind of a boost. Too bad actual crafting ingredients are BoP now.

Last edited by Vaximillian; 11-25-2014 at 07:48 AM..
  #2539  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:49 AM
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I feel like this expansion is even less alt friendly than Mists.
That's an incredible feat.
  #2540  
Old 11-25-2014, 07:59 AM
Torch Torch is offline

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I'm quite enjoying the endgame, thanks. Heroics are a bit of a tedious trash slog but that's mostly just a gear issue right now (although the slew of fatal environmental damage could be dialed back). I'm in love with garrisons.
This here actually rather amuses me- Half of the time I feel that there's so little trash I can't waste using my damage cooldowns on them, and on the other half there's so many mini bosses that it feels as though it takes forever (In the sort of "Here's why I'd rather have seen anti ninja/offspec>Mainspec mechanics on Need vs greed over personal loot" for 5 mans kind of way) and I'm gaining nothing in return.

Quote:
The daily apexis missions are actually far more interesting/fun than I was expecting.
I can't say I agree all that much. Most tends to be "kill loads", "Fail trying to kill loads because of high server pop" or "Go in raid group".

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Professions are rather lame but they've been a minor gameplay element since Cata, and I do like how everyone has some vanity thing or another to craft.
Nah, they've been gutted. Apart from LW, which doesn't have a proper glut of resources from the Garrison, Every other profession has FAR too few ways of using the materials, meaning that gathering professions are undervalued. No way to properly level professions? That fun's gone, and there are fewer ways to make money. Money? That's just daily cooldowns/work orders (AKA Daily cooldowns but different). Everything is gated, and that makes it rubbish, and there's simply no way of making as much or as little as you'd like (Allowing Gathering professions to be worthwhile, and allowing people to actually make money from them by working at them) other than a massive, massive grind. Professions aren't even tools through which players can put time into making money any more.

Oh, and random stats that WILL fuck you over. Thanks, it's not like I need Haste to function properly anyway, I liked having to wait 3 seconds to hit a really weak ability. At least before I could know whether it was an item really worth crafting or not, whether I'd have to hope it sold or not. Now I feel the need to make 3 items (with all my daily cooldowns), but they could be great or shite. But at least both stats are actually relating to my spec, given that people are getting items that don't benefit them at all. There's a reason when there's a thread about this on the US forums that has 164 likes in less than 2 days.

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And I really enjoyed the exploration content and I still have maps filled with treasures I still have to go out and collect. Hell, there's so much to do, I barely have enough time to finish up Nagrand, and that's awesome.
This I can agree with, Though I think this may partly be behind the absolute armour savaging crafting professions got.

(Oh, and on apparently Melee being high damage? Let me just say this. Heroics are NOT melee friendly. Sure, let's make a boss where you've got to stop an add, while ALL of the floor is covered in fire by the end of the fight, and loads of whirlwinds and shit)
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Last edited by Torch; 11-25-2014 at 08:18 AM..
  #2541  
Old 11-25-2014, 08:32 AM
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I really enjoy the Apexis stuff because it really encourages you to join a group of people in doing it. It's not hard, look for group in chat, get invited, play with people in an MMO.
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  #2542  
Old 11-25-2014, 09:34 AM
Odok Odok is offline

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Originally Posted by Torch View Post
This here actually rather amuses me- Half of the time I feel that there's so little trash I can't waste using my damage cooldowns on them, and on the other half there's so many mini bosses that it feels as though it takes forever (In the sort of "Here's why I'd rather have seen anti ninja/offspec>Mainspec mechanics on Need vs greed over personal loot" for 5 mans kind of way) and I'm gaining nothing in return.



I can't say I agree all that much. Most tends to be "kill loads", "Fail trying to kill loads because of high server pop" or "Go in raid group".



Nah, they've been gutted. Apart from LW, which doesn't have a proper glut of resources from the Garrison, Every other profession has FAR too few ways of using the materials, meaning that gathering professions are undervalued. No way to properly level professions? That fun's gone, and there are fewer ways to make money. Money? That's just daily cooldowns/work orders (AKA Daily cooldowns but different). Everything is gated, and that makes it rubbish, and there's simply no way of making as much or as little as you'd like (Allowing Gathering professions to be worthwhile, and allowing people to actually make money from them by working at them) other than a massive, massive grind. Professions aren't even tools through which players can put time into making money any more.

Oh, and random stats that WILL fuck you over. Thanks, it's not like I need Haste to function properly anyway, I liked having to wait 3 seconds to hit a really weak ability. At least before I could know whether it was an item really worth crafting or not, whether I'd have to hope it sold or not. Now I feel the need to make 3 items (with all my daily cooldowns), but they could be great or shite. But at least both stats are actually relating to my spec, given that people are getting items that don't benefit them at all. There's a reason when there's a thread about this on the US forums that has 164 likes in less than 2 days.

This I can agree with, Though I think this may partly be behind the absolute armour savaging crafting professions got.

(Oh, and on apparently Melee being high damage? Let me just say this. Heroics are NOT melee friendly. Sure, let's make a boss where you've got to stop an add, while ALL of the floor is covered in fire by the end of the fight, and loads of whirlwinds and shit)
The apexis assault dailies are surprisingly more complex than just “kill loads.” There’s a great deal of “click y” to go with the “kill x” and some of them are actually rather unique and complex, like dragging the floating orc bodies in Shatt harbor to the shore in order to burn them. I was worried it was all just going to be 50 shades of shao’hao, but in execution they really are just open-ended daily hubs without the quests.

I don’t mind the random stats on crafted armor because they’re just temporary piles of ilevel to help get your foot in the door. They aren’t meant to be kept past the first few weeks of raiding, and that early on, you don’t exactly need to be super min/max about it. It’s not a coincidence that Highmaul opens around the same time everyone will be grabbing their 3rd piece of crafted epics. In fact, I rather like the fantasy of that. Crafting and gearing up before taking on the big fortresses of Draenor, using the resources of your garrison at your disposal.

I will say that it’s pretty stupid that every recipe takes truesteel/whatever. In fact, it’s pretty damn lame that as a blacksmith I have piles and piles of hundreds of ore and nothing to make with them, not even junk or consumables or crappy gear. That’s a pretty bad oversight. The reason gathering profs are buried in WoD is because Blizzard has been candid about wanting to make them secondary profs for a while now, and this is sort of testing the waters.
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  #2543  
Old 11-25-2014, 09:39 AM
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Gathering profs were how I earned currency.
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Old 11-25-2014, 10:36 AM
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I think this will be my last wow expansion, been playing the game for 10 years straight (more or less) that's about fine enough for me.
  #2545  
Old 11-25-2014, 10:52 AM
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I got my alchemist to the point where I got the alch hut. so ...much...tinctures...
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  #2546  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:03 AM
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  #2547  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:05 AM
Jiggler Jiggler is offline

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Love it.
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  #2548  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:06 AM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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AND ITS GOOD!
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  #2549  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:07 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Not bad.
  #2550  
Old 11-25-2014, 11:08 AM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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Dat booty.
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