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  #276  
Old 03-24-2017, 04:37 PM
Shandalay Shandalay is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
From what I understand, Helheim is an artificial plane akin to the Elemental Planes (which is fitting, since Helya helped build them in the first place), perhaps even built from a section of the Abyssal Maw.

When a vrykul dies, Helya's val'kyr have to compete with Odyn's val'kyr (and, of course, the time in which the deceased will go to the Shadowlands) to drag the soul down to Helheim. Or, she may simply send her Kvaldir to snatch living vrykul and enslave them in Helheim (kill them, too?).
At first, the Val'kyr were only in the Shadowlands and after being freed Helya forged an enchanted refuge, binding it to the seas. As she was also the one responsible for creating all the other planes and refuges, she probably created Helheim in the same way, that I agree with.
Maybe not all Kvaldir could have been classified as undead in the beginning, but as soon as she starts forcefully getting souls that don't belong there, I think those would be undead. To me that would include 'worthy' Vrykul, that should be going to the Halls of Valor, the Kaluak ghosts, still living Vrykul that she snatched and the changed Valajar.
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  #277  
Old 03-24-2017, 04:53 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Indeed, they are undead, they just never went to the Shadowlands.

Anyway, would you consider that the player characters died when they went into Helheim? Probably not when entering through the Naglfar, but in Stormheim questing there's a moment your soul is sent in there through Haustvald.
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  #278  
Old 03-24-2017, 05:18 PM
Shandalay Shandalay is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Indeed, they are undead, they just never went to the Shadowlands.

Anyway, would you consider that the player characters died when they went into Helheim? Probably not when entering through the Naglfar, but in Stormheim questing there's a moment your soul is sent in there through Haustvald.
I think the characters are somehow transfered completely, aren't they? Like with soul and body. When you wake up from it, you lie in a grave and Havi says something about the dead returning from Helheim, iirc. So I'd say you actually die there. Now that I think of it, it reminds me of the scene in the... uh... Howling Fjord, was it?... where you make that spirit journey for the Draenei shaman. If you accidently came too close to the Lich King (he wasn't visible outside the spirit world there) he kills you, but tells his Val'kyr that you are not yet ready for being taken by them and they should wait until the character is ready. There you also die, but the story is that he fully expects you to come back to life and find your way to him for revenge.

Anyway, I think that in this quest in Stormheim, the Mystic actually turns you into an undead in Helheim, because you do not simply die, but get transported there forcefully and by shadowmagic. Together with a dead Vrykul queen. ^^
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  #279  
Old 03-24-2017, 05:24 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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So you become an undead without dying? Sort of like Arthas?
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  #280  
Old 03-24-2017, 05:44 PM
Shandalay Shandalay is offline

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So you become an undead without dying? Sort of like Arthas?
Yes, kind of, but Arthas remained in the living world as a bodily undead, whereas the characters in that quest get transported to another realm and when they escape they are actually alive.
Hm, maybe like Helya, when Odyn first turned her into a Val'kyr. She was bound to the Shadowlands without having died before. Only she could not escape from there.
Maybe the spell the mystic cast was even (a weaker form of) the very same spell Odyn used? I bet Helya figured out how he did that and passed the knowledge on to those who follow her.

Edit: Did the Lich King maybe use the same spell for Sylvanas?
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  #281  
Old 03-24-2017, 08:21 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Naaru are basically spirits unto themselves that require either Light or Shadow to restore them, but will always reform in either of those binary states.
Would you describe the naaru as living beings? If you would describe naaru as living beings, would you deny that their very opposite (void entities such as voidwalkers) are (un)dead beings because warlocks who control dark spirits composed solely of shadow energies are technically necromancers? Are you someone who would come up with an excuse to justify the asinine claim that warlocks aren't necromancers? The warlocks' shadow bolt is quite literally a slight variation on the necrolytes' shadow spear, which is a manifestation of black souls belonging to orcs per WC1. Time changes and that's a constant, which is exactly why I still view warlocks who manipulate necromantic, black manifestations of souls as necromancers because warlocks are essentially necromancers no matter how many times wishy washy writers retcon their own story. They don't seem to have any point claiming that warlocks aren't necromancers other than, "because I can".

Such arrogance from such arrogant shmucks will not go unpunished because I'm not some ignorant person who ignores the fact that their insane fanboys are essentially accusing me of lying just because I believe warlocks are necromancers when regards to Blizzard's silly fantasy story. Most warlockian abilities are necromantic abilities used by necromancers while the rest are shamanistic abilities used by shaman who would tap into life force (Spirit) using Life Tap and transform it into an energy that was given one of its first definitions when Metzen defined it as essentially death energy. Warlocks have always been treated as pigeonholed, watered-down necromancers who don't raise the dead despite the fact that they very much can. Since WC1 itself, warlocks are acolytes (or followers) of the underworld who used destructive power of the world of the dead and can create a poison cloud that is technically necrotic - a mix of the stench of rotting corpses and the essence of evil, designed to decay and corrode (presumably a precursor to the death knights' death and decay). The warlocks of WC1 are essentially necrolytes who don't raise the dead and that is what they essentially are today. Ergo, the Historians are gone from Twitter. They act as if warlocks are pigeonholed spellcasters who lack uniqueness because they have overlapping abilities with other magical classes. They'd probably claim warlocks can practice necromancy without being necromancers instead of being reasonable by stating warlocks are necromancers who practice necromancy of a particular type.

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
a Demon's a "living spirit" in that they naturally come back as a demon given enough time.
Living demon/spirit is an oxymoron and "coming back as a demon" implies that a demon stopped being a demon. You seem confused. There is a difference between a spirit that is tethered to the Nether AND can have a physical body, a creature that is created with a physical body and a spirit tethered to the Nether, and a physical body that can have a spirit tethered to the Nether. Although the three seem the same, they're not same and you're basically conflating them.

1) If a demon is a spirit that is tethered to the Nether and can have a physical body, a demon can exist even if it is detached from a physical body and returns to the Nether. They are essentially undead or spirits in this case.

2) If a demon is a creature that is created with a physical body and a spirit tethered to the Nether, can it have a spirit tethered to the Nether? There's a difference between being a spirit tethered to the Nether and having a spirit tethered to the Nether. If a demon is a spirit AND a physical body, it can't exist if either is destroyed because those two things are what makes a demon a demon. Destroying the physical body and allowing the spirit tethered to the Nether to return there doesn't mean the demon returns back to the Nether because a demon is part body in this case.

3) If a demon is a body that can have a soul, it can exist without soul and therefore be a soulless corpse.

Here's the problem of every person who would try to justify the asinine claim that warlocks aren't necromancers: Demons would be nonphysical beings or spirits that warlocks can give physical bodies to if they're from the Nether. However, Blizzard employees are treating demons as fleshy, living beings WITH spirits that are tethered to the Nether and return there. And just how can demons be living beings with spirits that return to the Twisting Nether after death? If demons are living beings AND if demons can die, the spirits of those living beings would cease to exist the moment those beings die because the moment they die, those beings cease to be living. Those spirits would go from "spirits of living beings" to "spirits of dead beings".

Whether you want to admit it or not, Blizzard employees are basically treating demons as living, non-skeletal liches - undead beings who have their souls bound to phylacteries to generate corporeal bodies, can be reborn as if they're natural beings, and have eternal life. So, why exactly are you claiming that demons aren't undead? Don't you know demons are just as magical and unnatural as liches are? At least liches aren't from an astral, magical dimension that transcends all realities. At least liches have their souls tethered to objects that exist in the same realm as them. At least the cords that connect their souls to their phylacteries don't stretch and slightly pull the souls when liches move too far away from the objects their souls are bound to.

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Originally Posted by MyMindWontQuiet View Post
there are undead demons
Demons ARE undead and to infer that all demons aren't undead based on the faulty premise that they need to be bloodless, fleshless, hairless, and soulless is wrong. Death knights can have blood, seemingly nice flesh, hair, and souls tethered to vampiric runeblades. If anything, demons are just as undead and unnatural as a death knight such as Arthas and Blizzard's employees are just refusing to use "exception to the rule" to justify that claim. Still, the facts remain: At least Arthas wasn't born in the broken wastes of the Nether. At least Arthas was actually a mortal who aged and died.

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
So you become an undead without dying? Sort of like Arthas?
Yes. Sort of like Arthas... Exactly.

/slow clap for you. You deserve a million dollars. Perfection has agreed with you.

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
the physical undead don't "restore" themselves to their former corporeal forms and have to haphazardly attach other things to replicate lost functions.
Are you forgetting about liches?

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
Without these additions, their physical forms would decay and the only thing keeping them away from the Shadow Lands would be the initial magical tether that anchors their spirit to whatever current plane they exist on.
So, what about demons? If they can have physical forms, can their physical forms decay? Or do demons - as immortals - exist inside impenetrable force fields that block out chronomantic forces that would push everything toward a state of entropic decay and eventual eventual oblivion over time?

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
Living spirit, a being that does not require artificial tethers (e.g. a fundamental universal force harnessed to place them in a certain physical state, whether deliberately [e.g. shadow magic] or by accident [e.g. psychic trauma or obsession]) to places outside the Shadow Lands in order for them to exist in those locations, and whose origin (regardless of current physical state) is also in those locations. Furthermore, said tethers are the normal state of those spirits if "healthy regrowth" occurs considering damage to that being's physical form.
ROFLOL. "Healthy regrowth".

Demons are not mortals according to Blizzard and mortals are defined as living beings that die. If demons are living beings that die, they're essentially mortals and yet you would run around in circles avoiding that fact all the while maintaining that demons are immortals just because Blizzard states so. Are you some parrot who mimics the poisonous lies of evil Blizzard employees even if doing so makes you appear as a liar? I don't believe you're dumb so you should stop reiterating Blizzard's lies as facts just because WoW is their story. Blizzard employees can't state anything they want without paying consequences. They can't say the n word or the fa* word without being held accountable. The price these people pay for playing word games with the fans of their story is me driving the historians away.

I'm not here to be accused of ignoring their lore. I'm here to explain the flaw with their claims and why what they're stating can never be true. Demons are not immortals who exist in impenetrable force fields that block out death. If demons are immortals who exist in impenetrable force fields that block out death itself, how can demons die?

Do you think I'm dumb and don't understand what story Blizzard is telling here?

Quote:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Warcraf...lopedia/Demons

Demons are evil immortals who feed upon magic and life. They delight in inflicting suffering, spreading corruption, and, of course, destroying all that is good. Most demons were once mortal. Not all demons are sentient: various animals have been transformed into demons, for instance.
Quote:
http://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Warcraft_Encyclopedia/Gods

There are no hard and fast rules to define what it means to be a god in Warcraft, save that all gods are immortal. Gods can be fundamentally incorporeal, like Elune, or they may have physical bodies.

Gods are neither omniscient nor omnipotent.

Can one ever truly destroy a god, putting a lasting end to its existence? Unfortunately that question has departed the realm of philosophy and become a matter of vital concern.
Blizzard's point is that demons are immortals and that there are no hard and fast rules to define what it means to be a god in Warcraft, save that all gods are immortal. Can demons - as gods - be destroyed? Well, I'd state no because demons are immortals and immortals are not actually created creatures who can be destroyed. The only way to get rid of demons forever would probably be with a void that sucks them into non-existence.

The claim that demons are living immortals that can die is not fooling me what-so-ever. If demons are living beings that can die, they're merely mortals who cheat death and by mortals who cheat death, I mean necrolytes who bind their souls to soulstones then toss them into the nether gateways that they use to commune with their demon masters.

Thus the flaw of WC1 has been revealed. Typically, only a god has the ultimate power to summon, control, and banish immortals such as demons. However, when regarding to WoW, demons fit the requirement to be considered gods. And just how can demonologists summon, control, and banish these gods without being acolyte servants of demon lords or an astral goddess of the moon who has astral power over all astral beings from astral bodies floating in-between the astral Nether and the physical universe? Gul'dan was not some astrologist shaman of the Shadowmoon clan who peered at a demon world then became a demonologist. He was not some shaman acolyte of the Shadowmoon clan who became a warlock by worshipping Elune or dark naaru in exchange for divine power over demons.

Gul'dan became a warlock only because the demon necrolyte Kil'jaeden discovered him and taught him in exchange for servitude. He was an acolyte servant of a demon necrolyte of Sargeras who did warlock stuff on his behalf and, because Gul'dan (as a warlock) was a student of a necrolyte, of course he knew how spread plague and raise the dead. According to Volume 2, one of the very first things he did as a warlock is use his magic to spread the red pox plague. And he didn't know how to create death knights because he was some crippled outcast with no magical powers. He knew how to create death knights because he - as a warlock - learned necromancy from a demon necrolyte and was therefore a necrolyte himself. And if the so-called first warlock was an acolyte/necrolyte slave of demon lords, all warlocks are acolyte/necrolyte slaves of demon lords. In fact:

Quote:
http://web.archive.org/web/200310021....shtml#warlock

Warlocks were mages that delved too deeply into the roots of demonic power. Consumed by a lust for dark knowledge, they've tapped into chaotic magics from beyond the world. The Burning Legion now feeds them their powers, allowing them to channel destructive energies and call upon the powerful emissaries of their demon masters.
Quote:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/channeler

: a person who conveys thoughts or energy from a source believed to be outside the person's body or conscious mind; specifically: one who speaks for nonphysical beings or spirits
Quote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-physical_entity

In ontology and the philosophy of mind, a non-physical entity is a spirit or being that exists outside of physical reality. Their existence divides the philosophical school of physicalism from the schools of idealism and dualism; with the latter schools holding that they can exist and the former holding that they cannot. If one posits that non-physical entities can exist, there exist further debates as to their inherent natures and their position relative to physical entities.[1]
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https://mobile.twitter.com/alex_afra...952000?lang=en

Archimonde is a demon whose demon soul is anchored to the Nether. The Nether transcends all realities. That is all.
Quote:
The fiery demons had come from a place beyond reality. Magic was what they sought, magic they devoured.”

Excerpt From: Richard A. Knaak. “Warcraft: War of the Ancients #1: The Well of Eternity.” Simon & Schusters. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Quote:
A dreadlord was a demon. A thing out of myth. It couldn’t be real...

Excerpt From: Golden, Christie. “World of Warcraft: Arthas.” Pocket Books. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Quote:
http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader...The_Dragon.pdf

Despite their ever-present courtesy, the paladins generally made it clear that they considered magic an occasional, necessary evil, one with which they would do without at all other times. The last one that Rhonin had encountered had quite clearly indicated that he believed that, after death, the mage's soul would be condemned to the same pit of darkness shared by the mythical demons of old

Among the other orcs it had been whispered that Nekros Skullcrusher had summoned one of the demons of lore. He did not discourage that rumor, although Zuluhed knew better. The monstrous creature guarding the dragon had no sense of independent thought. In attempting to harness the abilities of the mysterious artifact, Nekros had unleashed something else. Zuluhed called it a golem of fire—perhaps of the essence of demon power, but certainly not one of the supposedly mythical beings.

With the typical contempt of the nontalented, they had gone charging directly into the path of his grand spell . . . and thus most had perished along with the true targets—a band of orc warlocks intent on raising from the dead what some believed had been one of the demons of legend. Rhonin regretted each and every one of those deaths more than he had ever let on to his masters in the Kirin Tor.

Rhonin leaned forward without thinking. Every wizard studied the legends of the demon horde, what some called the Burning Legion,but if such monstrous beings had ever existed, he himself had found no proof. Most of those who had claimed dealings with them had generally turned out to be of questionable states of mind.
Quote:
“Gul’dan was intrigued by Cho’gall’s unfettered confidence and insatiable lust for power. He made the ogre mage his foremost apprentice, and he taught him the secrets of fel magic and told him of the Burning Legion’s existence. Though Cho’gall pledged his loyalties to Gul’dan, he was prepared to break them at any time. The ogre mage wanted only power, and he was not interested in the ideologies Gul’dan spouted concerning demons and the Legion

Excerpt From: Blizzard. “World of Warcraft Chronicle Volume 2.” Dark Horse Books, 2017-03-14. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Oh my lore nuts who post at scrolls of lore, I might just drown from the overwhelming amount of proof that the warlocks' demons are not from reality and are therefore essentially unreal. It's not my word against Blizzard. It's Blizzard employees against themselves. The warlocks' demons are not from reality and are therefore essentially unreal. Warlocks still talk to spirits from the Nether and channel their energies. Warlocks are still technically necromancers or those who speak to spirits and those who deny it need a splash of water to the face in order to wake up.

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-25-2017 at 12:59 AM..
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  #282  
Old 03-24-2017, 11:41 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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necrophotic, tell me why Gul'dan's personal clan (the Stormreavers) gravitated so much more naturally toward sailing than the other clans, even according to more recent sources like Chronicle.

I want to harvest your essence.
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  #283  
Old 03-24-2017, 11:44 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
necrophotic, tell me why Gul'dan's personal clan (the Stormreavers) gravitated so much more naturally toward sailing than the other clans, even according to more recent sources like Chronicle.
Cuz Gul'dan's clan is THE STORMREAVERS.

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I want to harvest your essence.
Are you a succubus? You want my life essence? You want my very c.u.m? I don't roll with women.

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  #284  
Old 03-25-2017, 12:56 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Cuz Gul'dan's clan is THE STORMREAVERS.
Kind of a shaman-sounding name, right? I wonder if Gul'dan still imbued ogre-mages with the ability to Bloodlust. I wonder if the Stormreavers still masterminded the magical taming of giant sea turtles to assist them. Or if Gul'dan's Stormreaver magic is still interwoven so tightly with the Horde's war machine that their Transport ships used "magical armor to repel enemy fire". Yeah, those neat little tidbits in the old manuals, like the shadow spear you mentioned. Fun to just browse through those old manuals again.

Funny. The description for the Troll Destroyer actually called them "longboats". Longboats "designed to cut through enemy armadas". Eagerly awaiting "any chance to stand mast to mast against Elven Destroyers".

And ah, the Juggernaught. "Veritable floating fortresses". Apparently they came to be feared across the Alliance for the their "unrelenting onslaught".

I have been drinking caffeine tonight.

* * * * *

necrophotic, the warlock and the necrolyte have been different units since the beginning of Warcraft history. Why are you so bitter about lore that never even existed? How can Blizzard steal back something it never even gave you?

People here say you want your fancharacter to have fel and necromancy. Well shit, those guys are everywhere. There's no issue. There's nothing lorewise keeping your character away from that.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 03-25-2017 at 12:59 AM..
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  #285  
Old 03-25-2017, 01:42 AM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Kind of a shaman-sounding name, right?
Right, but your point is what? That Gul'dan wasn't a shaman according to current lore? Listen kid, WC1 defines warlocks as channelers who channel the fire and brimstone of hell. They're essentially shaman who acted as conduits for the elements of the place demons are from and that's essentially how warlocks are being treated as EVEN UNTIL TODAY. Why do you keep on ignoring the emboldened part? Are you some ignorant person who ignores stuff because you can't handle the truth? If not, acknowledge what I'm stating instead of running around in circles.

Nothing has really changed:

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https://mobile.twitter.com/davekosak...72650519420929

Chi" is a Pandaren term for "Spirit," the primal life force that shaman tap into
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https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveKosak...45020619689984

The way I would describe it: Fel is chaotic energy. Warlocks convert life into fel, draining the victim as a source of power.
You act as if lore is mutable EVEN WHEN it's not retconed yet. For shame. Baron, warlocks still have the Life Tap ability and still convert/transform an element (life/spirit) into fel. And if fel is a form of an element that all living worlds (titans) composed of elements are connected/susceptible to, of course warlocks are some form of shaman. They tap into life force (Spirit) and would/should use Decay to weaponize the fire they use as a weapon. A canon source isn't really required to understand that warlocks are a form of shaman if they tap into an element and convert it into a technically elemental form of magic that they use to manipulate the other elements. This is common sense and putting two and two together. In fact:

Quote:
“Gul’dan met with a young but highly respected Shadowmoon shaman named Teron’gor. To win the orc to his side, the warlock showed him the might of fel magic, which he claimed was a higher form of shamanism.”

Excerpt From: Blizzard. “World of Warcraft Chronicle Volume 2.” Dark Horse Books, 2017-03-14. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.
Given Gul'dan's logic, he would claim warlocks are a higher form of shaman. So what's wrong with the name of a warlock's clan being a shaman-sounding name?

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
necrophotic, the warlock and the necrolyte have been different units since the beginning of Warcraft history.
Don't mention my username, you're not worthy to mention it if you ignored what I pointed out earlier.

WC1, warlocks are acolytes (followers) of the underworld who used the destructive power of the world of the dead and can create a poison cloud that is technically necrotic - a mix of the stench of rotting corpses and the essence of evil, designed to decay. They're acolytes who used necrotic powers but aren't treated as necrolytes just because they didn't raise dead. That's a fallacy, one of the many presented by WC1 manual. It claims that warlocks have a spell to summon daemons, only to claim that "the ability to summon these dark minions of the underworld has long been lost, though the Warlocks seek to find those secrets once again." a few pages later. Which one is it breh? Can warlocks summon daemons or do they seek to find the secrets to the ability to summon daemons? You can't have both those claims as canon. Clearly the WC1 presents fallacies intended to spark debates about whether warlocks are necrolytes or not. I don't believe you're sage enough to see that.

WC2, warlocks as a whole were given a definition because Gul'dan was defined. We know who Gul'dan - as a warlock - was and what he - as a warlock - sought. He was trained in the arts arcane by Kil'jaeden and all the results of his experimentations had at least one thing in common, which is that they all wielded necromantic magiks. Ogre-Magi wielded death magiks and had the Eye of Kilrogg, a variation on necromantic magiks. Necrolytes gained the ability to bind the bodies of the dead only after receiving more tutelage from Kil'jaeden (which suggests necrolytes can or do exist without the ability to bind the bodies of the dead). Death Knights can channel the necromantic powers of the underworld. Now, despite the fact that Gul'dan's very speciality - as a warlock - seems to have been necromancy, Gul'dan wasn't treated as a necrolyte by the WC2 manual, which claims warlocks can have the abilities of necromancers without being necromancers, which is just crazy because necrolytes (trained in the arcane mysteries) are warlocks per WC2 - another result of Blizzard playing word games.

WC3, orc warlocks are demon-worshipping, acolytes of the Legion and stormreaver warlocks had the raise dead spell. Necrolytes are a part of a warlock coven that Rexxar fought.

Vanilla, one of the very first definitions of fel energy is given to us by Metzen when he defined it as demonic, essentially entropic, and essentially death energy. And warlocks can call upon the demonic emissaries of their demon masters. They're essentially acolyte/necrolyte servants of the Legion who use death energies but can't raise the dead as undead with their soulstones. They're not treated as acolytes who use necromantic magic to raise the dead with soulstones. They are treated as acolytes who raise the dead back to full life with their soulstones by invoking the divine Light of the demon Lothraxion

Skip to today, this is how warlocks are still being treated as Baron. Warlocks are still being treated as acolyte servants of the Legion who can raise or command the dead on behalf of their Legion overlords but don't. They're necrolytes who don't raise the dead - nothing more, nothing less.

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Why are you so bitter about lore that never even existed?
Excuse me? Check yourself. I'm bitter because warlocks have strayed too far from their roots as necrolytes who can't (or don't) raise the dead. One of fel's first definitions is essentially death energy. This fel is the primal force of chaos nonsense is nonsense because a manipulator of life and disorder still doesn't seem to be any different from a manipulator of life and death. Fel being the primal force of chaos nonsense still doesn't change the fact that one of the very first things Gul'dan did - as a warlock - is used fel magic to spread plague. Gul'dan - as a warlock - was a plaguespreader and of course he knew how to raise the dead as a warlock because he only became a warlock because his necrolyte teacher taught him what he knew as a warlock.

Affliction warlocks still afflict enemies with necrotic afflictions and fel contagions that drain life, but can't raise the dead with a life-draining sickness known as plague. Affliction warlocks can't use their plagued grain/seed of corruption to raise the dead as undead despite having the secrets of the necrolytes. They are pigeonholed, water-downed plaguebringers/plaguespreaders who can't (or don't) raise the dead as undead in-game and in-lore, it's revolting.

Demonologists are still harvesters of souls who tap into the Void and manipulate manifestations of black souls via Shadow Bolt. They're still treated as masters of demons who can't (or don't) bind demons souls as if they're acolytes who can raise demon spirits on behalf of demon lords.

Destruction warlocks are still technically shaman because they call down fire from the sky and shaman would term spells as calls. They still tap into life force (Spirit) and convert it into a destructive force and they would use the necromantic Decay to weaponize the fire they use as a weapon. Makes sense?

Last edited by necrophotic; 03-25-2017 at 02:39 AM..
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  #286  
Old 03-25-2017, 01:57 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Necrophotic, take this please to a different thread. There were enough treads filled with these posts of yours, use one of them.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:29 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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EDIT: Oh, they did. Nothing to see here.
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:29 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Little known fact. Murlocs don't actually have acute vision outside their normal habitats. This is due to their genesis in coastal waters often tainted by sand and silt, where they developed natural eye coverings. This same translucent covering is used to cover their eyes on land to keep them sufficiently moist.

Just as with most aquatic species, it's not their eye-sight, but their sense of smell that's most acute. They can sense their prey from miles away. This too is vastly dulled on land, where their receptors don't function as well without water.

In either case, the most important thing to remember when seeing a murloc is that, just as with other primitive species, to stand down-wind and don't move. It can't see you if you don't move, and will likely chase the scent of some random carcass up wind. This is even true if you've already been found by a murloc, as their wild and ravenous hunger will lead them to chase whatever is closest to them.

But to bait a murloc, to let it latch onto you, is death. One bite brings more blood, bringing more murlocs from their local school, an endless cycle.

Note: All of the above is a bullshit, fanwank parable and does not represent any true facts about the species.
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Last edited by Cantus; 03-25-2017 at 04:46 PM..
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Old 03-25-2017, 03:12 PM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
necrophotic, tell me why Gul'dan's personal clan (the Stormreavers) gravitated so much more naturally toward sailing than the other clans, even according to more recent sources like Chronicle.

I want to harvest your essence.
The Stomreavers did not have a natural affinity for sailing, they had a vested interest in it because Gul'dan knew the Tomb of Sargeras was out at sea and thus they needed to be decent at seafaring in order to reach it.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:12 PM
Rexxar Rexxar is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I always thought wisps were undead.
What keeps high and blood elves from becoming wisps? Falling out of Aessina's favor? Something trivial I missed?
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:22 PM
MyMindWontQuiet MyMindWontQuiet is offline

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I do not believe wisps are Wild Gods, as Wild Gods are bound to the Dream it seems, while wisps are not. Also there's no reason to think that. They're really just night elven souls.

Is there a specific reason necrophotic is not banned yet? There's no discussing with them. If the reason is that one believes they might change, they won't. They've been vomiting the same crap for literally years now, have caused writers and devs to get ill on twitter, and have been banned from WoWpedia for years. I don't find much reason to suffer through all this.
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:30 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by MyMindWontQuiet View Post
I do not believe wisps are Wild Gods, as Wild Gods are bound to the Dream it seems, while wisps are not. Also there's no reason to think that. They're really just night elven souls.
That's not what I meant when I said that they are like Wild Gods.

What I meant is that wisps seem to be nature spirits tied to Wild and Life magic, just like the Wild Gods. As far as I know, they are also tied to the Emerald Dream, but I'd have to check.

Incorporeal undead, while also being spirits, are tied to other magic energies, so you could say that it's like the distinction between becoming a ghost and becoming an angel. One is considered undead, the other isn't.

Another thing to consider is that undead are generally those spirits whose continued existence (on the mortal realm) is considered unnatural, which is another reason why I'd exclude wisps, Odyn's val'kyr and his valarjar.

Last edited by Nazja; 03-25-2017 at 04:35 PM..
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:42 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyMindWontQuiet View Post
Is there a specific reason necrophotic is not banned yet? There's no discussing with them. If the reason is that one believes they might change, they won't. They've been vomiting the same crap for literally years now, have caused writers and devs to get ill on twitter, and have been banned from WoWpedia for years. I don't find much reason to suffer through all this.
So long as he's not abusing users, the current site rules let him have his say. If you'd like to get into a discussion of whether those are the best rules, join us in the hornet's nest of the Rules and Regulations thread and offer up your opinion. Just as a forewarning though, users here tend to be extremely defensive about permabans.

Personally, I just make sure his posts don't contain any abusive language and ignore anything and everything else about him (thus the Murloc parable above).
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:51 PM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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So long as he's not abusing users
Abusing/harrassing people is the only thing he does though.
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Old 03-25-2017, 05:59 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Abusing/harrassing people is the only thing he does though.
Well, and spamming the same arguments and notions over and over again. That also counts for something, no?
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:09 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
Abusing/harrassing people is the only thing he does though.
So he fits here perfectly then.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:20 PM
Rexxar Rexxar is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Another thing to consider is that undead are generally those spirits whose continued existence (on the mortal realm) is considered unnatural, which is another reason why I'd exclude wisps, Odyn's val'kyr and his valarjar.
Yeah, I agree, but is there any info on why high elves (and BEs) are excluded from the wisp club?
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:27 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
Abusing/harrassing people is the only thing he does though.
He doesn't harass people explicitly, and his arguments, however insane they may be, are still his opinion. However, spamming those arguments across multiple unrelated threads without context would count as harassing users in an implicit fashion (by virtue of refusing to let a basic level of discourse occur).
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:52 PM
necrophotic necrophotic is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
He doesn't harass people explicitly, and his arguments, however insane they may be, are still his opinion. However, spamming those arguments across multiple unrelated threads without context would count as harassing users in an implicit fashion (by virtue of refusing to let a basic level of discourse occur).

Your argument that demons are living spirits is insane tbh
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Old 03-25-2017, 08:20 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Rexxar View Post
What keeps high and blood elves from becoming wisps? Falling out of Aessina's favor? Something trivial I missed?
I think it's possible night elves only started becoming wisps after death after Nordrassil was created, due to Ysera's blessing. By renouncing Nordrassil, the quel'dorei lost that blessing.
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