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Old 02-12-2016, 11:25 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Default Things the Factions ought to have by now

Orcs ought to have the clans as military groups. That way you can have your dark-caster orcs that kill demons with their own magic and are super sketchy, your bloodlusty murdercrazed jackass orcs, your goblin-tech refining orcs, your noble savage animal taming orcs, your super shamanistic elemental based orcs, and other variations.

Darkspear Trolls ought to have a few bases with tamed direhorns, pterrorwings, devilsaurs, and such by now, either taken from the Zandalari or trained through similar techniques.

Tauren ought to have Sun Rocs and a fire-variant thunderlizard/kodo working with Sunwalkers that look like Sunwalkers not tauren in Paladin gear.

Forsaken ought to have four parts. Alchemists that make slimes and abominations. Shadow-priests/Banshees that double as necromancers for the willing so they're not reliant on Val'kyr. Darkhound/spider training deathstalkers and such. And demon/arcane studying warlocks/mages that dabble in the nether.

Blood Elves ought to have some bloody phoenixes along with new blood magic and anima variant studies.

Goblins, some alchemy along with their engineering, let's see giant animals hopped up on goblin colas and them helping orcs and trolls make 'dire' variants of themselves or something.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:32 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I guess the clans fit the orcs, but it'd be better for them to move past that. Barring the Frostwolf, the old clans were pretty awful, and I don't think the Horde should celebrate them.
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Old 02-12-2016, 11:34 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by HlaaluStyle View Post
I guess the clans fit the orcs, but it'd be better for them to move past that. Barring the Frostwolf, the old clans were pretty awful, and I don't think the Horde should celebrate them.
That's why I said as military organizations.

EDIT:

To clarify.

There would be no "Warsong Clan"

The Warsong Legion would be a group, primarily of orcs but with members from other races, or working closely with groups from other races such as http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ragetotem_tribe that are the Horde's premier Warriors.
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:24 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Speaking of Legions, it would be nice if most orc clans were the descendants of a specific ogre Legion.
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:44 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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The Dwarves ought to have Grim Batol and Shadowforge retaken or at least taking steps towards those goals...
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:47 AM
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Night elves: Dignity and respect
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:53 AM
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Humans: Development concerning the other kingdoms. Stormwind hegemony is suffocating.
Dwarves: Retake their holdings and land or at least start the process. The dwarves should be the power house of the Alliance.
Gnomes: Retake Gnomeregan and acquire more holdings elsewhere. They're too few and too powerless.
Draenei: Start moving their remaining population to Northern Kalimdor. Outland is dying, it is time to build a strong bastion on Azeroth. Fortress Song must rise. Inviting in a number of AU Draenei to bolster their numbers would be ideal.
Worgen: Kill off Tess, she's a traitor. Reclaim Gilneas and have vengeance upon the hated Forsaken.
Night elves: Stop being such a bag of cunts, flick the bird to the Druids, build strong bonds with the Draenei and start reclaiming northern Kalimdor. Also, fuck like rabid bunnies. They're too few.
High elves: Become playable.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:29 AM
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Default No dwarven power house!

Humans need Stormwind lore, instead of Wrynn and Jaina lore, too.

Draenei need to acquire more magicians and let the humans get some paladins.

Gnomes need to build new villages and acquire some paladins.

Night elves need their priests to be hunters, so the race doesn't become too human-like. Paladins and priests should still have a place in their society too, though.

Worgen need to be worgen, not Gilneans who can't even give birth to cursed children.

Dwarves need more golems and titan-craft, with a few gnomes and humans too.

Morgan for Dale, Moira for Erebor!

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Old 02-13-2016, 06:26 AM
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ITT: Things that will never happen because of Devs like Kosak.

WAKE ME UP [CAN'T WAKE UP]

But in the interests of fun:

Humans: Stormwind being the most powerful/relevant Human nation is fine at this point, but they suffer from having no real identity at the same time. Stormwind should get more focus on it's Light users, so more development for the Church (which has suffered massively from Blizzard's hardon for Alliance characters/groups going Neutral) - Aside from Stormwind, we should get some real, meaningful development for Stromgarde and Kul Tiras. Stromgarde should be, if not a full-on nation again, more relevant than it has been in WoW's lifetime, especially given they set the groundwork for it with Danath's text in TBC. Kul Tiras should of been added years ago, seriously, as the Alliance's main Naval power, rather than trying to shift that to Stormwind.

Worgen: Tough one given how they've been developed. I'd like to see Blizzard actually decide what they want to do with them and stick with it. Are they just cursed for a generation or so (given no Worgen Babies, that is basically what they currently are) or will they pass on the curse to their children, perhaps when they reach adulthood? Either make them more unique or let them die out, because right now we've got a bunch of Furry Night Elves, and that's an utter waste of everyones time. Gilneas needs to be retaken regardless, and should of been given MoP/SOO's story/ending.

Dwarves: It's not 100% clear who is in control of Shadowforge right now, there's stuff that suggests Moira's Dark Irons do still control it, other stuff suggests they had to flee and the Dark Irons still loyal to Twilight's Hammer/Ragnaros are in control. Either way, Alliance should have full control of it at this point, and it's got potential to be a fantastic capital given BRD is STILL fun to explore even with it's age clearly showing. Wildhammers are pretty decent but some phasing updates to the Highlands/Aerie Peak to reflect their status with the other two clans wouldn't be a bad idea. Grim Batol I don't think needs to be retaken as they've long since cut ties with it. It's up for debate if Moira and/or the Bronzebeards would have any desire to claim it, possibly as a 2nd city to Ironforge. Dwarves main lack at the moment is named NPCs other than Moira/Muradin/Falstad, all of whom have been utterly wasted, Moira possibly being the exception. More Brann please, he deserved far better than he got in Cata AND MoP.

Gnomes: Retake Gnomeregan fully, they've already laid the groundwork for this with Pre-Cata+Post-Cata development. Possibly give some more focus to their Leadership, I'd like to see Geblin have advisors/relevant named NPCs. Gnomes are still treated, largely, as a joke race and it's not fair to them either in-Lore or their players. A bit of humour is fine, Dwarves don't mind some Drunkard stuff here and there, but Gnomes are basically a meme race at this point.

Night Elves: Updates to the world to reflect that, at this point, they should be in full control of Ashenvale and other parts of Northern Kalimdor. A few new named NPCs wouldn't be a bad idea given how badly they've used Tyrande and Malfurion. Shandris and Jerod are due some relevant screentime. As for Furion; I don't mind him being Neutral per say, given his history and his calling, it does make sense, but he has been shown as Alliance-based in several sources at this point so pick a decision here and stick with it. Tyrande needs her voice actress to stop sounding like a Troll (I seriously still have no idea how her voice is as bad as it currently is) and Blizzard need to stop butchering her. By all means, show her as aggressive at times, but the way she's been made into a complete moron just to big-up King Chin is fucking pathetic.

Draenei: Exodar/Azuremyst/Bloodmyst need phasing updates more than any other zone in Azeroth, IMO. Even Silvermoon/Eversong don't feel quite as jarring as they do. Draenei development in WoD was, overall, very good. Full credit where it's due; Blizzard did fine work there. The problem? As it currently stands, it's utterly pointless. MU Draenei currently have zero named NPCs outside of Velen. I don't really want to see AU Draenei coming over to Azeroth, but if a few have to, so be it. Mostly just need to see more focus on their society recovering/rebuilding, and at this point non of them should be in Outland given the fact Outland is continuing to die.

I'll do Horde at another time, tired now!
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:06 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Things the Forsaken need: a guillotine blade to the head of each and every one
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:16 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Things the Forsaken need: a guillotine blade to the head of each and every one
Go get to it ingame and leave my thread alone then if you don't have anything interesting to say you limp earwig.

I mean really you could at least have the decency to describe an interesting weapon for the Alliance against the Forsaken.

But no, you have to be -boring- about it.
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:26 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
That's why I said as military organizations.

EDIT:

To clarify.

There would be no "Warsong Clan"

The Warsong Legion would be a group, primarily of orcs but with members from other races, or working closely with groups from other races such as http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ragetotem_tribe that are the Horde's premier Warriors.
I gotcha. That's kind of how I approached it in the travelogue, with different war-packs (warrior brotherhoods) being fairly obvious descendants of the old clans. Different enough to stand out, but similar enough that everyone knew the orcs hadn't quite disassociated from their past.

Regarding Stormwind and Ironforge, I've always had this theory that the human kingdom's badly overstretched and relies on dwarven money. The dwarves aren't planning on gouging the Alliance later (since they're BFFs), but for all the High King rhetoric, it's really the dwarven senate that runs the Alliance.

I imagined the dwarves having universal conscription, which makes them a bit more cautious about sending troops to distant foreign lands, especially after the Cataclysm devastated dwarven infrastructure (like the Stonewrought Dam). Stormwind has a volunteer force, on the other hand, so they tend to be more reckless.
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Old 02-13-2016, 10:54 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Worgen ought to have Druidism that's distinguishably different from the type that Night Elves use. Make them either more pagan or more like scientific naturalists who research and study the deeper parts of nature. Make their nature magic darker in style, conjuring swamplands, marshes, and cursed forests as part of their motif rather than sparkling fairy trees that Night Elves grow.

They ought to have more development that's centered around the Worgen half of them, and no I don't mean furry Night Elves, I mean actual werewolves that are capable of sentient thought who lack the moral purity of their fellow Alliance races. If they're just cursed humans then fine, okay, I don't like it but at least TRY to make them feel like a unique race from the rest of the Alliance. If Tess Greymane is planned to become queen of the Worgen then she should look the part, they should make her a Worgen because I will not accept a non-Worgen as the face of the race. It would be far too incongruent and would continue to water down the race more than it actually is right now.

If Gilneas can't come back then give them an equivalent in another zone. Let them rebuild a new Gilneas on some other continent and let it serve as a capital city for an expansion. Otherwise, they should at least be allowed to use their architecture more instead of constantly borrowing from other races.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:04 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Most other classes I can understand, but why do people have this obsession with making druidism racially distinct?
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:13 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Most other classes I can understand, but why do people have this obsession with making druidism racially distinct?
Because it's one of the most iconic classes for Worgen, and they have a lot of potential to explore Druidism in a different manner than Night Elves.

It would help diminish them being more like Night Elves too.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:17 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Well, while it wouldn't be too strange for worgen druidism to be slightly distinct from night elven druidism (Harvest Witches & Freya vs. Cenarius), I don't really see any room for big differences. That ship has already sailed; Blizzard made them a night elf druid form and had night elves teach them.

Trolls? Those can be as distinct as you want. They were taught by the not-Ancients Loa.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:18 AM
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Most other classes I can understand, but why do people have this obsession with making druidism racially distinct?
I don't have any special desire to see it myself, but I get Grim's point, and Worgen DO need to seperated from Night Elves if they want to continue using them as a Race. Otherwise they might as well just do away with the idea now, cure all Gilnean Humans, and offer free Race Changes to every Worgen player.

The Horde balance to this would be removing Forsaken and offering them a free Race Change too. I'm more than ok with this.

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Regarding Stormwind and Ironforge, I've always had this theory that the human kingdom's badly overstretched and relies on dwarven money. The dwarves aren't planning on gouging the Alliance later (since they're BFFs), but for all the High King rhetoric, it's really the dwarven senate that runs the Alliance.
Friendly reminder that the Senate doesn't exist anymore because Blizzard can't do Worldbuilding outside of a few super-hero faction leaders.

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I imagined the dwarves having universal conscription, which makes them a bit more cautious about sending troops to distant foreign lands, especially after the Cataclysm devastated dwarven infrastructure (like the Stonewrought Dam). Stormwind has a volunteer force, on the other hand, so they tend to be more reckless.
I've never thought about it like that, but I really like that idea. And it does make sense.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:21 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Well, while it wouldn't be too strange for worgen druidism to be slightly distinct from night elven druidism (Harvest Witches & Freya vs. Cenarius), I don't really see any room for big differences. That ship has already sailed; Blizzard made them a night elf druid form and had night elves teach them.

Trolls? Those can be as distinct as you want. They were taught by the not-Ancients Loa.
Make Worgen emphasize the death cycle of nature, with more autumnal motifs and vicious looking plantlife. Maybe even combine it with alchemy and step into the grounds of biotech. Not necessarily nefarious magic but still creepier in style.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:23 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by HlaaluStyle View Post
I gotcha. That's kind of how I approached it in the travelogue, with different war-packs (warrior brotherhoods) being fairly obvious descendants of the old clans. Different enough to stand out, but similar enough that everyone knew the orcs hadn't quite disassociated from their past.

Regarding Stormwind and Ironforge, I've always had this theory that the human kingdom's badly overstretched and relies on dwarven money. The dwarves aren't planning on gouging the Alliance later (since they're BFFs), but for all the High King rhetoric, it's really the dwarven senate that runs the Alliance.

I imagined the dwarves having universal conscription, which makes them a bit more cautious about sending troops to distant foreign lands, especially after the Cataclysm devastated dwarven infrastructure (like the Stonewrought Dam). Stormwind has a volunteer force, on the other hand, so they tend to be more reckless.

Nice.

My thought is they'd be descended directly from the clans, set up by Thrall so they can learn from the mistakes and strengths of the Old Horde.

It's also part of my plan to pair up orcs and humans divisions with the other members of the factions. Each orc 'clan' or human kingdom paired with a different race or allied faction group so that there's a feel of orcs and humans being the 'core' but the other races all still contribute and don't fade into the background for entire expansions at a time.

Warsong with Goblins, Stormwind with Ironforge.

Thunderlord with Tauren, Stromgarde with the Dark Irons

Shattered hand with Forsaken, Gilneas with Nelves

Bleeding Hollow with Trolls, Kul'Tiras with the Gnomes etc...
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:27 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Make Worgen emphasize the death cycle of nature, with more autumnal motifs and vicious looking plantlife. Maybe even combine it with alchemy and step into the grounds of biotech. Not necessarily nefarious magic but still creepier in style.
That sounds neat. Pumpkin druids!
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:32 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Friendly reminder that the Senate doesn't exist anymore because Blizzard can't do Worldbuilding outside of a few super-hero faction leaders.

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I did not know this.

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Nice.

My thought is they'd be descended directly from the clans, set up by Thrall so they can learn from the mistakes and strengths of the Old Horde.

It's also part of my plan to pair up orcs and humans divisions with the other members of the factions. Each orc 'clan' or human kingdom paired with a different race or allied faction group so that there's a feel of orcs and humans being the 'core' but the other races all still contribute and don't fade into the background for entire expansions at a time.

Warsong with Goblins, Stormwind with Ironforge.

Thunderlord with Tauren, Stromgarde with the Dark Irons

Shattered hand with Forsaken, Gilneas with Nelves

Bleeding Hollow with Trolls, Kul'Tiras with the Gnomes etc...
That's a cool idea. I'd envisioned it as being more of an ad hoc arrangement (troll or tauren auxiliaries would end up in whatever war-pack they fought against, assuming they didn't stay with their own units), but it'd be a good way to encourage mingling.

The only war-packs I remember writing about were the Ebonflint and Red-Eye (obvious analogs to the Black Rock Clan and the Bleeding Hollow Clan). I think I had the Red-Eye use talbuks as mounts. Oh, there was also the Tigerclaw War-Pack, which was naval, but that was a gratuitous Wing Commander reference as opposed to a Warcraft reference.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:32 AM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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General Angerforge should 100% become one of Moira's lieutenants.

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Through a lifetime of study, General Angerforge has become an expert on dwarven military history and tactics. He recently incurred Emperor Dagran Thaurissan's fury by writing a scathing treatise on his clan's failures in past conflicts. This political blunder aside, Angerforge is a Dark Iron to his core. He will bleed--and die, if necessary--to protect his people and his emperor.
You can't tell me he wouldn't make a hell of a lot more sense with Moira rather than as a Twilight's Hammer lackey.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:36 AM
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General Angerforge should 100% become one of Moira's lieutenants.

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You can't tell me he wouldn't make a hell of a lot more sense with Moira rather than as a Twilight's Hammer lackey.
He's probably dead in-Canon, but if he's not I firmly agree, he should be at Moira's side.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:43 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
It's also part of my plan to pair up orcs and humans divisions with the other members of the factions. Each orc 'clan' or human kingdom paired with a different race or allied faction group so that there's a feel of orcs and humans being the 'core' but the other races all still contribute and don't fade into the background for entire expansions at a time.

Warsong with Goblins, Stormwind with Ironforge.

Thunderlord with Tauren, Stromgarde with the Dark Irons

Shattered hand with Forsaken, Gilneas with Nelves

Bleeding Hollow with Trolls, Kul'Tiras with the Gnomes etc...
Are Gilneans still Worgen in this scenario? Hard to think of what they have in common with Night Elves if they're not.

To be honest, I'm starting to prefer the idea of Gilneas just acting independently and not trying to get chummy with other races, because when that happens their identity is completely lost.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:50 AM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Are Gilneans still Worgen in this scenario? Hard to think of what they have in common with Night Elves if they're not.

To be honest, I'm starting to prefer the idea of Gilneas just acting independently and not trying to get chummy with other races, because when that happens their identity is completely lost.
The worgen got shafted more than any other race. The switching back between human and worgen form was a cool idea, but made it much harder for them to have any clear identity. As it is, they come across as sidekicks for the Kaldorei.

The best option may have been to make the transformation itself a key to their identity. Show how the curse affects Gilnean society. Some Gilneans hate it, and try to suppress it whenever possible; others find it liberating. This could be even more interesting if you assume Gilneas had some of the same class divides present in their Victorian inspirations.

Likewise, how do Gilneans integrate in other human kingdoms? Stormwind authorities might not like the idea of worgen spreading their curse through a bite. A single drunken or disturbed worgen could cause a major problem. This might believable lead them to seek shelter with elves instead, despite the massive cultural differences.
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factions, worldbuilding, worldbuilding; kosakpls

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