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Old 10-18-2010, 12:42 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Default War of the Ancients instance

I just heard about it.That means we will see Sargeras and Broxigar ?
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:43 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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I just heard about it.That means we will see Sargeras and Broxigar ?
Uhh... who knows.

I'm kinda hoping they'll go with the original version rather than the novel's.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:00 PM
Rashid Rashid is offline

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I'm kinda hoping they'll go with the original version rather than the novel's.
I would like this as well, just for the storytelling really, but it's wishful thinking. You already have a narrative of events courtesy of Knaak, and Blizzard would have to make pretty much all new lore to fill in the gaps of what was a sparsely detailed event the first time around.

That and the mixed message it would send about which continuity is the prevailing one would be a bit messy.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:57 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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I think it'd be great if the WotA raid was about the Bronze Flight actually getting around to fixing the timeline, and due to Infinite interference we have to help.
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:19 PM
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I'm almost worried how they'll handle this one and I don't mean the which version they'll choose because my money is on the revised WoTA for the reasons mentioned by Rashid. Meaning Brox and maybe Sargeras will be present.

What I mean is, is it going to be one raid instance? And if so how much could they squeeze into it, there's so many important events that took place that changed the war. Hyjal felt watered down and that was no where near the scope of the War of the Ancients.

If I was calling the shots (thank god I'm not, effort :S) it would be several smaller raids perhaps split even over two tiers.

One perhaps in a desperate pitched battle in dunno, Ashenvale or something in the early days of the war, we get to see Kur'talos Ravencrest and of course the six book characters with the story being the Infinite Dragonflight has been adding to the Legions strength and we have to go in and tip the scales back.

Another from when Krasus, Malfurion and Brox went to steal the Demon soul with a minor retcon that we were sent in to cause enough of a distraction for them to get through or something, that the Bronzes can mind-wipe later. ( I dislike this the most but it's basically the easiest to make, cave dungeon but with harder mobs and bosses whee)

And ofcourse the final assault at Zin-Azshari, where the infinite Dragonflight have been contributing to the portal causing demons to stream in much faster so again we have to go and even it out. This will be awesome because we might be able to fight Mannoroth and 3 Highborne Pri-- Nobles aswell as see all the fun that went down, hell we might even go into the Twisting Nether with Brox but bail before Sargeras shows up.

I know I didn't suggest when the Ancients joined the battle or the use of the Demon Soul but there's only so much to fit in one raid/mini raids.

So yeah, off-topic mumbling
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:36 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Assuming that the Infinite Dragonflight's a factor and they don't make WotA another Hyjal-style "get to see the famous characters" romp (here's hoping), I think it'd be interesting if the players' illusory allegiances shifted as the Infinites try to just overall screw things up for the timeline by attacking prominent figures among both the Azerothian defenders and the Burning Legion's leadership.

After all, if it's time itself we're protecting, why should we be limited to protecting the underdogs of Azeroth when both sides in that war present viable targets for one seeking to disrupt the progression of events? How cool would it be for a raid to at some point assume the visible guises of various demonic troops depending on their class and fight alongside Mannoroth or Archimonde against some Infinite monstrosity that's trying to derail the proper course of events by killing them before their appointed times?
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Anasterian Anasterian is offline

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I actually have a somewhat similar train of thought, but... even more elaborate. I wouldn't even make the War of the Ancients a raid, but a period piece/quest hub ending with a dungeon or raid. The Bronze flight may be 'testing' the region and looking for potential contamination and so they allow the players to go in. You'd be disguised a Night Elf probably... do quests for locals in the same village Illidan and Tyrande lived in (name escapes me). Do quests while there specifically for the sisters of Elune and posibly local Moon Guard who have sighted oddities in the wilderness lately. If they follow the Knaak storyline or a sort of combination of the two, you could join the in the capture of Brox, join Malfurion in the dream... kill Xavius, fight Hakkar the Houndmaster, quest under all of the ancients and Ravencrest, see Illidan and Neltharion's betrayal, etc.

The end would probably be an instance/raid where you face people like Varo'then, Mannoroth, Archimonde, Azshara, and as all goes to hell a massive event where the portal is open and the Legion is coming out en masse... where you have to enter the portal, do a large event, then retreat before it closes. Or possibly fight one of the highest ranking Infinites who is trying to use the portal for some other nefarious purpose...

I do know, however, that it would be way too much work to do all this... considering you'd be remaking about 2-5 full areas to match their 'past' versions.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:12 PM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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After all, if it's time itself we're protecting, why should we be limited to protecting the underdogs of Azeroth when both sides in that war present viable targets for one seeking to disrupt the progression of events? How cool would it be for a raid to at some point assume the visible guises of various demonic troops depending on their class and fight alongside Mannoroth or Archimonde against some Infinite monstrosity that's trying to derail the proper course of events by killing them before their appointed times?
I know the Bronze Dragonflight is all about preservation of the timeline over changing it but how could they pass this opportunity up? I honestly see no way in which Mannoroth or Archimonde not meeting an early demise wouldn't be good and for the best interests of Azeroth and the entire universe.

I'll admit the idea does sound completely awesome and I'd be ecstatic to have my Warrior become a Doomguard/Wrathbringer but from a story standpoint I don't think it would quite work. Unless they go with a sort of enemy of my enemy thing where said "Infinite monstrosity" might cause more damage then if whatever Legion leader was left alive.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Anasterian View Post
I do know, however, that it would be way too much work to do all this... considering you'd be remaking about 2-5 full areas to match their 'past' versions.
Time that would be well-spent, I think. I would love to see something like this - not just a dungeon with "phat lootz" that you go through and get out in 10-15 minutes, but something you can actually immerse yourself in!
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:41 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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I know the Bronze Dragonflight is all about preservation of the timeline over changing it but how could they pass this opportunity up? I honestly see no way in which Mannoroth or Archimonde not meeting an early demise wouldn't be good and for the best interests of Azeroth and the entire universe.
You mean kind of like, how could they pass up an opportunity to kill Deathwing before he empowered the Demon Soul? Or how could they pass up the chance to go back and stop the Highborne from ever even summoning the Legion in the first place?

Part of the nature of the Bronze flight's job is that they don't get to pick and choose which events to keep. On some level they've seen it all (or at least, their selves at some future point have), yet they're compelled by their duty to let the worst things happen along with the best things, regardless of whether or not they feel morally or ethically compelled to go back in time and prevent it. Along those lines, the Bronzes do seem to display a more eccentrically pragmatic and detached view of things than most other dragons, probably because maintaining such a mindset is convenient for beings who have to basically just accept that theoretically, they and everything else on Azeroth might be fated to die horribly, and they're duty-bound to let it come to pass.

That includes the Legion's invasions, the subsequent betrayal of Deathwing and atrocities inflicted by both. Thus far, the only thing that's been shown to exceed the tolerance of their duty to leave events unchanged is when the Old Gods or Infinite Flight reached back and tried to alter things. The actions of other such temporally "flexible" beings draws their intervention, but everything else throughout time they're duty-bound to leave unaltered.

In other words, the only events they'll step in and obstruct in such a fashion are those caused by forces displaced in time like they are. That's why even Nozdormu only confronted and attacked Deathwing in "realtime" at Grim Batol during DotD, even though logic would suggest he could easily go back and stop the Earthwarder from ever creating the Demon Soul and turning against his fellow Aspects. He doesn't do so because his entire purpose revolves around keeping time inviolate from external tampering, no matter how horrific things are destined to turn out.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:33 PM
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-Snip-
Ok fair enough what I said was probably silly and just me trying to force Human beliefs and ideals down the throats of a race that doesn't have the concept of 'but it'll be for the better' when it comes to their duty.

What I meant by 'how could they pass it up' was that after thinking about it for a moment and even still now, I can see few ways in which the premature death of a important Legion figure would have negative repercussions for anyone whereas say, Deathwing not making the Demon Soul might lead to the Dragons not sending in all of their forces because they didn't feel as confident and thus the Legion controlling the skies and ending the war and world there and then. Weakly strung together but an example, even though by my logic something in a similar vein could be said for a loss on the Legion side.

What you said about the Bronzes acceptance and dedication to their charge is something that I personally see as a particularly 'Titan' attitude. Going by the similarity between this and Algalon's behaviour.
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Old 10-18-2010, 04:47 PM
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Assuming that the Infinite Dragonflight's a factor and they don't make WotA another Hyjal-style "get to see the famous characters" romp (here's hoping), I think it'd be interesting if the players' illusory allegiances shifted as the Infinites try to just overall screw things up for the timeline by attacking prominent figures among both the Azerothian defenders and the Burning Legion's leadership.

After all, if it's time itself we're protecting, why should we be limited to protecting the underdogs of Azeroth when both sides in that war present viable targets for one seeking to disrupt the progression of events? How cool would it be for a raid to at some point assume the visible guises of various demonic troops depending on their class and fight alongside Mannoroth or Archimonde against some Infinite monstrosity that's trying to derail the proper course of events by killing them before their appointed times?
this is brilliant! someone mail this to blizzard, and make them do this, please!
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:24 PM
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How about for this CoT, we fight at the side of the Infinite Dragonflight and kill , at which point Tyrande and Malfurion will be incredibly thankful that they didn't have to rely on such a low caste race as the humans to fight in their wars, after all it's a battle with the favored children of Elune in it, why add humans?
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:31 PM
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How about for this CoT, we fight at the side of the Infinite Dragonflight and kill , at which point Tyrande and Malfurion will be incredibly thankful that they didn't have to rely on such a low caste race as the humans to fight in their wars, after all it's a battle with the favored children of Elune in it, why add humans?
Though I think that you're on to something, I think that it's fallacious thinking to assume that the Night Elves would assume that a human is "low caste." They have no experience with humans at that point in their development and Rhonin, for better or for worse, displayed an excellent command of the arcane, so I think that it would be relatively safe to assume that he'd be treated as a near-equal at least.

In any event, it would be great to have a "play as the Legion" raid. I want to turn my shadow priest into a dreadlord!
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:44 PM
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Though I think that you're on to something, I think that it's fallacious thinking to assume that the Night Elves would assume that a human is "low caste." They have no experience with humans at that point in their development and Rhonin, for better or for worse, displayed an excellent command of the arcane, so I think that it would be relatively safe to assume that he'd be treated as a near-equal at least.

In any event, it would be great to have a "play as the Legion" raid. I want to turn my shadow priest into a dreadlord!
Why would they not? the Night Elves are xenophobic by nature(with reason), humans aren't blessed children of Elune(else they'd know about it). If you consider yourself a child of the godess herself, everyone who isn't is considered below you, hence of a low caste.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:46 PM
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Though I think that you're on to something, I think that it's fallacious thinking to assume that the Night Elves would assume that a human is "low caste." They have no experience with humans at that point in their development and Rhonin, for better or for worse, displayed an excellent command of the arcane, so I think that it would be relatively safe to assume that he'd be treated as a near-equal at least.
I don't think being a great user of magic would exactly earn you a lot of points with the Night Elven rebellion against a MAGIC-based Aristocracy.
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Old 10-18-2010, 05:50 PM
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Why would they not? the Night Elves are xenophobic by nature(with reason), humans aren't blessed children of Elune(else they'd know about it). If you consider yourself a child of the godess herself, everyone who isn't is considered below you, hence of a low caste.
I don't disagree, but the portrayal of the night elves has become a bit muddled of late. In the War of the Ancients books, it appeared that magic might made right with night elf society at the time, so I wouldn't be shocked that they'd afford Rhonin at least some respect. I'm not suggesting that they'd treat him as an equal, though the mages may have, just that they wouldn't treat him like your average furbolg or tauren.

It could be that I'm just forgetting, but the night elves weren't really rebelling against the magocracy in the books either, in fact they used the mages to fight back against the Legion. Ravencrest was a respected member of the nobility, in fact, so I imagine that he'd be linked in at least some way to the mages. Again, it's been some time since I've read those books, but I don't recall any kind of rebellion against the magic using nobility, in fact they leaned pretty heavily on Illidan and the mages all through out.

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Old 10-19-2010, 12:47 PM
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I would imagine this would be a Ulduar or Icecrown type patch. New 5 man's, new raid, etc. It's too big of a event not to be.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:01 PM
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You'd be disguised a Night Elf probably...
I'd say the Night Elf Illusion theory holds water.

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Old 10-19-2010, 09:24 PM
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It could be that I'm just forgetting, but the night elves weren't really rebelling against the magocracy in the books either, in fact they used the mages to fight back against the Legion. Ravencrest was a respected member of the nobility, in fact, so I imagine that he'd be linked in at least some way to the mages. Again, it's been some time since I've read those books, but I don't recall any kind of rebellion against the magic using nobility, in fact they leaned pretty heavily on Illidan and the mages all through out.
...I hate that book so much.

Illidan joined Tyrande and Furion seemingly under the condition that he be counciled on how to GIVE UP magic.

I don't think they'd try to impose their views on another culture, but... Rhonin being respected as a magic user just doesn't sit well with me.
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:09 AM
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Why would they not? the Night Elves are xenophobic by nature(with reason)
They get along with Draenei just great, tbh - best of all other alliance races.
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:43 AM
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We had a CoT: WotA raid ides thread around.

My version was something like this:

* Wing 1: Siege of Black Rook Hold
* Wing 2: Battlefield of the last battle
* Wing 3: Betrayal of Deathwing
* Wing 4: Assault of the Eternal Palace

Wing 1 is the "introduction", wing 2 is the huge battle against the Legion, wing 3 is blacks slaughtering blues in Crystalsong and wing 4 is the final battle over the Well.

More info about the main layout here: http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...88&postcount=1

As for the Infinites... in this raid, we would help them. Bronzes and Infinites would team against the Old Gods manipulating the time, but in the end, when the problem is fixed, they would glare at each other with animosity, making this little alliance mean nothing.

More info about that interaction process here: http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...5&postcount=56

I think they're pretty good, give em a read .
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Old 10-20-2010, 05:40 AM
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I don't remember where I wrote it, but I think that this CoT may be the last stand of the Infinite Dragonflight. They really can't go back any further can they? I'm sure they couldn't stop Sargeras from forming the Burning Legion so I don't expect that.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:50 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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I don't remember where I wrote it, but I think that this CoT may be the last stand of the Infinite Dragonflight. They really can't go back any further can they? I'm sure they couldn't stop Sargeras from forming the Burning Legion so I don't expect that.
Well, I could see an expansion based on the idea the the Infinites broke the timestream, with new zones being from different parts of history and accessed through the Caverns of Time.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:11 PM
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They get along with Draenei just great, tbh - best of all other alliance races.
Apart from the Night Elf who mistakes the Draenei for an eredar and runs away.

I really don't get why they'd get along, it doesn't make much sence for them to have any connection with the Draenei other than due to proximity.
The Draenei are all about the Naaru(Holy Light), while the night elves are pagan.
The Draenei are technologicly advanced, while the Night Elves, are advanced, but in a more primal way.
and the list goes on, in many ways they're oposites, with very connections. Perhaps their hate for orcs, but the Draenei don't seem to be that much of a hatebaring race, and considering they have also been manipulated by demons, they might not be putting the blame on the orcs.

And really, it's not like there are many Draenei to be found within the Night Elven towns.
The Night Elves have gone a long way to be more friendly to outsiders since the Third War, but during the War of the Ancients, I'm pretty sure they still had a much more defensive stance towards the unknown.
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