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  #26  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:02 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
Are there any other lore sources that describe him and talk about his skin color? Also, is his name actually Fenran or Dagran II?
Dagran II

I hope this kid doesn't become a peace loving hippie like Anduin.
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:02 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Dwarves are quite likely one of my most favorite races from the game, and I pretty much like all three of the Dwarven clans. Iron Dwarves would probably be a cool addition to the Alliance but more as an NPC race like how the Ice Dwarves were.

Moira is an easy fave just due to having so much potential. Muradin's also a pretty badass warrior, and I also really liked that they had Kurdran do stuff during Cata.

I think Falstad Wildhammer could maybe have more to him, he seems to be the least developed aside from being in Day of the Dragon.
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  #28  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:32 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
I'm aware of that, but that could be due to Blizzard's limitation in depicting him like anything else due to the lack of any in-game models resembling a baby dwarf more closely.

Are there any other lore sources that describe him and talk about his skin color? Also, is his name actually Fenran or Dagran II?
Dagran II, Fenran was his name when he appeared in Magni's nightmare. He had Dark Iron skin in that nightmare, but then, of course Magni would have nightmares of his grandson looking like a Dark Iron.

As for his actual skin colour, I'm going to say that in game is what he actually is, due to the whole in-game stuff trumping out-of-game stuff. His skin colour is never actually defined in The Shattering or Fire and Iron either, and I think something as notable as having Dark Iron skin would be noted in at least a line.

I think his Dark Iron heritage may come more in the form of abilities.

COUGH. Dagran Thaurissan please. COUGH.

Warrior-mage!

All he needs is Bronzebeard martial training and Dark Iron magical training, plus knowledge of Wildhammer shamanism/tradition in the form of a Wildhammer wife and the dwarves are set for unity.
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2013, 03:47 PM
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She fall into lava.
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2013, 04:19 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Dwarves are the best Alliance race.

One of my favorite things about Cata was Dwarf archaeology.

Would've been pretty neat if the Twilight Dark Iron and the Ironforge conflict had been more wide-spread. I always used to think how much more interesting the Dwarf zones would've been in Cata if they'd been overhauled to reflect a legitimate war between the Twilight-affiliated Dark Irons and Ironforge.

A great zone-spanning conflict to mirror the Horde-Alliance battles in Kalimdor and Lordaeron.

Just imagine it... in Dun Morogh you'd start out by putting down a local ice troll revolt. You'd find that they're being supplied weapons from the Dark Irons. This leads you to investigate all over Dun Morogh until you reach a small Dark Iron base, with the zone culminating in you dismantling it with a team of mountaineers and the Gnomish spec ops dudes. There you discover a map detailing the Invasion of the Loch.

You quickly make way to Ironforge, to discover the Three Hammers bickering over some petty political BS. When you deliver the news, Moira is almost arrested but manages to weasel her way out of it by explaining that those Dark Irons are not affiliates of hers. Rather, they're usurpers and traitors! Dogs of the Twilight's Hammer who do not want to see the blood of a Bronzebeard on Thaurissan's throne. Moira would talk about how this war would've happened eventually when her son became King of Ironforge and sought to unite the other half of his realm.

With most the capable Dwarves serving in Kalimdor and whatnot, and having proven yourself a capable Dwarf, you're then sent out to Loch Modan with a squad of mountaineers to prepare and to aid in the defense in whatever ways you can. Except that it's too late. The gryphons you guys are riding are shot down mid-flight and you parachute down into a besieged Thelsamar. Your arrival is the deciding factor of the battle, though. You manage to repulse the Dark Iron forces and to your dismay discover it was only the vanguard.

Loch Modan questing would involve you hunting down the survivors of the Dark Iron vanguard, gathering supplies for any future sieges, erecting fortifications, killing spies, assaulting the ogre encampment and turning it into a military base, before finally laying down traps all over the road and the Loch-Badlands border, etc. When the rest of the Dark Iron army arrives, the trap is sprung. Their army is devastated by the losses suffered from the traps and then you and your guerrillas pick the rest off from the hills and mountains with rifles and machine guns, before charging in to what's left of their force and killing the commander in close combat.

With the invasion repulsed, the order is given to secure the Badlands. You, the very capable dwarf by this point, are sent in with a team of the Gnomish spec ops dudes, where you would dismantle the Dark Iron base at Uldaman. Laying down all the groundwork for the Ironforge forces to occupy Uldaman. (Uldaman instance would be redesigned to have a bunch of Twilight Dark Irons hanging about, and the Ironforge base there would only be complete after you finish the quests for the dungeon.)

With Uldaman secured, the Badlands would erupt into a full-out warzone, with NPC's duking it out in the desert and shit. All the quests at this point would be about conquering the Badlands, with the eventual battle at Dark Iron Kargath.

(Kargath was taken by the Dark Irons and the Horde survivors would establish a new small base on the coast, where their questing would be minimal, but would tie into the story of the zone. The Horde survivors would have quests where they take revenge on the Dark Irons by raiding their caravans, killing their patrols, weakening them slowly until they had a chance for big opportunity thanks to the Ironforge assault. The Horde and Alliance quests wouldn't really cross. Story-wise, the Alliance wouldn't even feel the Horde presence. There would be reports of some orcs or a troll or something. By the end of the zone, they would reach a conclusion that the Horde had been waging a small guerrilla war against the Dark Irons in the zone, indirectly aiding the Alliance.)

At the Siege of Kargath, Muradin himself would arrive to command it. He'd do some badass things like one-shotting Dark Iron golems and killing the Dark Iron commander there, and breaking the new ominous Dark Iron gate that leads into Searing Gorge.

With the Badlands taken, the rest of the fighting would be carried out by the neutral Thorium Brotherhood. They'd receive a lot of assistance from Ironforge, such as troops, siege tanks, gyrocopters, etc. A small token of support from the Horde in the Badlands, if only so that players from both factions could participate.

Searing Gorge would have a lot of what was in the Badlands, fighting against the Dark Irons, etc. The main story of the zone would be about getting a siege on Blackrock Mountain in the works, which is the note the zone would end on. Breaking through the Dark Iron gates and establishing an outpost there at the foot of the mountain. The "taking" of the mountain would be from quests given by the TB, Horde, and Alliance, etc. Quests for BRD and UBRS. Of course, both instances would be completely redone to fit the story.

That's all I've got for now. Can't thinking of anything else right this moment.
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  #31  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:27 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I would love to know more about the dwarves' political system with the senate and all that.
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  #32  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:31 PM
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I would love to know more about the dwarves' political system with the senate and all that.
As would I, and I just asked Loreology about it.
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  #33  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:35 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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I just want to see more dwarves in general. I think they're a great race with an incredible aesthetic, a great personality, and a lot of potential for heroism and adventure just as much as they do for warfare and politics. The day Blizzard realizes what they've got in this race - and hopefully utilizes it well - will be a great day for Warcraft.
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  #34  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:49 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Exactly my thoughts on the race, Volkrin.

Dwarves are one of the most if not the most populous races on the planet at the present time - And they are a people, just like humans on earth, that means every dwarf is different and every dwarf has his/her way of doing things.

It doesn't matter if there's a wacky dwarf, because there will be serious dwarves as well. Just like in real life.

The danger is, of course, leaning to the former 'wackiness' a bit too much, but then there's also the threat of going too far to 'serious' as well.

My point is, at the end of the day, I don't mind that there are drunkard dwarves, silly dwarves, comic relief dwarves, there are people like that in every society and race, what is important though is that people realise that is not just what dwarves are. Dwarves have -plenty- of times shown that they are a serious race with some pretty interesting tendencies and attitudes.

For example, the dwarves are the only race in Warcraft to outright declare an imperialistic war and call it imperialistic. Other actions taken by other races can be said to be imperialistic, but only dwarves have acknowledged that's what it is. It speaks of a culture that is one of the most advanced on the planet.
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  #35  
Old 09-20-2013, 05:49 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
I just want to see more dwarves in general. I think they're a great race with an incredible aesthetic, a great personality, and a lot of potential for heroism and adventure just as much as they do for warfare and politics. The day Blizzard realizes what they've got in this race - and hopefully utilizes it well - will be a great day for Warcraft.
Nah, we'll get more humans.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #36  
Old 09-21-2013, 02:42 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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To be honest, Humans and Dwarves aren't awesome any more.
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  #37  
Old 09-21-2013, 02:46 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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To be honest, Humans and Dwarves aren't awesome any more.
What would make them awesome again, to you?
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  #38  
Old 09-21-2013, 02:50 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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What would make them awesome again, to you?
Less of the excessive lawful stupidity.

Focus on culture and politics, rather than generic wars and fighting.

Emphasis on history, particularly of destroyed kingdoms.

Fighting for their own land rather than land which logically they shouldn't give a damn about.

What is exactly unique about Stormwind and Ironforge which isn't there in every other fantasy? Nothing.
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  #39  
Old 09-21-2013, 04:15 AM
Andrettin Andrettin is offline

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Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
Exactly my thoughts on the race, Volkrin.

Dwarves are one of the most if not the most populous races on the planet at the present time - And they are a people, just like humans on earth, that means every dwarf is different and every dwarf has his/her way of doing things.

It doesn't matter if there's a wacky dwarf, because there will be serious dwarves as well. Just like in real life.

The danger is, of course, leaning to the former 'wackiness' a bit too much, but then there's also the threat of going too far to 'serious' as well.

My point is, at the end of the day, I don't mind that there are drunkard dwarves, silly dwarves, comic relief dwarves, there are people like that in every society and race, what is important though is that people realise that is not just what dwarves are.
Comic relief characters are a symptom of bad writing - a good storyteller can make the same characters be serious or comical depending on the situation they find themselves in.
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  #40  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:47 PM
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Comic relief characters are a symptom of bad writing - a good storyteller can make the same characters be serious or comical depending on the situation they find themselves in.
Shakespeare says 'hi.'
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  #41  
Old 09-21-2013, 12:57 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Shakespeare says 'hi.'
Honestly, while he did some good stuff, I kind of find it overrated.
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  #42  
Old 09-21-2013, 03:37 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Honestly, while he did some good stuff, I kind of find it overrated.
That's ingrained Dutch bitterness at the English and by extension the British being better than them.

New York, not New Amsterdam.

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  #43  
Old 09-21-2013, 03:39 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Honestly, while he did some good stuff, I kind of find it overrated.
I agree.
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  #44  
Old 09-21-2013, 03:49 PM
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I think the thing about Shakespeare is less what he wrote and more the way he wrote it. Just like Cervantes, Dumas, or Tolstoy, it's not the same if you read it in another language.


On topic, I would love to see a dwarf named Urist.
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  #45  
Old 09-21-2013, 03:50 PM
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If I had an alliance char, it would DEFINITELY be a Dwarf

A Rogue Dwarf :3
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  #46  
Old 09-22-2013, 04:13 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Honestly, while he did some good stuff, I kind of find it overrated.

Shakespeare was not overrated!

Also, is it just me or does Varian look like a zombie?
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  #47  
Old 09-22-2013, 12:03 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I was trying to figure out why I like so much of the Dwarven international unity, but I hate so much of the Human international unity.

What I think it comes down to... is that even though the Dwarves are moving in the direction of unity, there is still more distinctness and clan pride in each of the three cultures than there is in any human kingdom that isn't Stormwind or Gilneas. Amidst that Dwarven unity, there are still Bronzebeards, Wildhammers, and Dark Irons who wish to push their own local interests while still pushing the common interest. A good Bronzebeard wants a single powerful Dwarven nation, with Bronzebeards benefiting the most. Good Dark Irons want the powerful Dwarven nation with Dark Iron interests coming first. Good Wildhammers want the powerful nation with Wildhammers on top, or at least well-considered. It's believable.

That is the diversity within unity that drives me wild - the same feel of the Warcraft II Alliance and Horde, with their various nations or clans interacting with each other. The Council of Three Hammers is how I want the Alliance to work. And when Dagran comes of age and moves to become emperor, I still want the various clans to seek their own interests, to have that same conflict-within-cooperation.

In contrast, what does unity look like for the "human kingdoms" and the rest of the Alliance? Garbage, that's what. Do Kul Tiras and Stromgarde even exist? But no. No need to dwell on that here, since this is a Dwarf thread.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 09-22-2013 at 12:07 PM..
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  #48  
Old 10-07-2013, 11:14 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Originally Posted by Thunderbraid View Post
That's ingrained Dutch bitterness at the English and by extension the British being better than them.

New York, not New Amsterdam.

The Dutch are actually not as prideful as other nations. We don't really have a bitterness towards any country right now (even Germany is a big friend).

Dwarves are awesome, I'm hoping that their updated model will come up soon
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  #49  
Old 10-07-2013, 11:21 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I think dwarves are the most awesome Alliance race in terms of coolness and iconic look, and with scheming!Moira they had a chance to be interesting storywise too but "Alliance are bestest friends ever" principle ruined that possibility and made any cunning politicking impossible.

That is all I have to say about that.
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  #50  
Old 10-07-2013, 12:23 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by Call of duty 1 View Post
What is exactly unique about Stormwind and Ironforge which isn't there in every other fantasy? Nothing.
In a genre dominated by dwarves who existed in a state of perpetual decay with their glory days long behind them, made relevent only by their association with humans and lacking even the mystery and dignity of the elves Ironforge bucked that trend. Here you had a dwarven nation that was at the dawn of a cultural renaissance due to the reconnection with their mythic origins. Far from decaying, here you had a culture of adventurers and scholars closer to unraveling the nature of Azeroth than any other mortal race. Far from being petty sidekicks of humanity, here you had an Ironforge that stood firm as the stable bedrock of the Alliance as the humans, elves, and gnomes reeled from the ravages of the third war. Ironforge was, in the only example in fantasy that I can recall, an example of dwarves ascendant.

Then Varian came onto the scene and Blizzard decided to turn the Alliance into the exact same "heroic" faction we'd seen a billion times before.

Last edited by Volkrin; 10-07-2013 at 04:05 PM..
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