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  #51  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:11 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
But you're not just playing worgen; you're playing Gilneans.
Well, that's what we're supposed to be playing.
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  #52  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:14 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Well, that's what we're supposed to be playing.
Given Wofheart, they're now more content on living in the woods forsaking any trace of their Gilnean culture.
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  #53  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:14 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
Given Wofheart, they're now more content on living in the woods forsaking any trace of their Gilnean culture.
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  #54  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:34 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
Given Wofheart, they're now more content on living in the woods forsaking any trace of their Gilnean culture.
Maybe you missed the part in this thread that identified this as being a problem.
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  #55  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:37 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Maybe you missed the part in this thread that identified this as being a problem.
I know. This is why Grim brought up how Worgen at the moment can easily be replaced with Furbolgs.
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  #56  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:40 AM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
You know, it could always be worse. Somehow. I'll get back to you on the specifics... oh, maybe the non-Worgen Gilneans could all be Forsaken?

Also, some of us (the cool kids) think Westlee is Cbred. Just a heads-up if he seems familiar.
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  #57  
Old 04-29-2014, 01:42 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Yakitori View Post
You know, it could always be worse. Somehow. I'll get back to you on the specifics... oh, maybe the non-Worgen Gilneans could all be Forsaken?

Also, some of us (the cool kids) think Westlee is Cbred. Just a heads-up if he seems familiar.
I don't think it can get worse than it is right now. At least if all the Gilneans were forsakenized I'd hate it immensely, but I'm so desensitized by all the other shit they've pulled.

I don't know who Westlee is, depends on his opinion of Dalaran. If he thinks that Jaina was justified then he is not Cbred. (And Cbred was at least capable of making me laugh, especially this onetime when he said he was struggling to reach the orphan matron in Orgrimmar when he did the raid.)
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  #58  
Old 04-29-2014, 02:33 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Thing is, the furbolg aren't furry night elves. They like forests, sure, but they've also got their own grand civilization in Grizzly Hills. They've got a connection to the aspects, sure, but really only the one, and they're not particularly druidic, seeming to prefer shamanism. They have historic ties to the night elves, sure, but they're also apparently quite distrustful of them in recent times (for reasons that were never really explained). In battle, they are bulwarks, not sentinels. They have no ties to the night, or Elune.

They would probably still be a bit of a better fit than the worgen, but not by as much as people seem to think. No matter what race is added (and I do think furbolg could work), the warcraft setting has it with at least a somewhat different tone and style.
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  #59  
Old 04-29-2014, 02:44 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Thing is, the furbolg aren't furry night elves. They like forests, sure, but they've also got their own grand civilization in Grizzly Hills. They've got a connection to the aspects, sure, but really only the one, and they're not particularly druidic, seeming to prefer shamanism. They have historic ties to the night elves, sure, but they're also apparently quite distrustful of them in recent times (for reasons that were never really explained). In battle, they are bulwarks, not sentinels. They have no ties to the night, or Elune.

They would probably still be a bit of a better fit than the worgen, but not by as much as people seem to think. No matter what race is added (and I do think furbolg could work), the warcraft setting has it with at least a somewhat different tone and style.
Interesting points...

Since I give a shit about races, I would have done thing to make Furbolg seem less NE-ish. Like, say, in Stonetalon, I would have Dwarven Mountaineers from Theramore teach them how to use cannons. The quirk would be that instead of using the cannons like the Dwarves do, the Furbolg would just pick them up and flat-out use them like bazookas or rocket launchers because they're practically Tauren-sized.

The Dwarves reaction to it all would be something like "holy hell man!"
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  #60  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:03 AM
Arterius Arterius is offline

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Worgen were a better choice than Furbolg. Worgen as implemented were a worse choice than Furbolg.

In retrospect, it might have turned out better if the Alliance had gotten the Furbolg rather than the Worgen. Circumstances and gameplay constraints basically strangled the potential for the Worgen while it was still in the cradle. There are fewer zones separating Gilneas from Undercity than with any other two opposing capitals in the game, and the zones separating them are relatively small. So Worgen start off in Gilneas, then get shuffled off to another zone to level further.

Add to that Gilneas being a battleground (probably so the assets get used for something), and you have made the Worgen into a people in permanent exile, which is a fate that has not done any favors for the Gnomes. Any story hook they could possibly be given is dwarfed by "reclaim homeland", but it is perpetually dangled out of reach due to the location of the homeland and the existence of instanced content that takes place in it.

On top of that, it looks like originally the plan was for Worgen to level in southern EK with the humans, seeing as how a majority of the Worgen story that does take place happens in those zones. Then, for whatever reason, it was scrapped as the last second and the Worgen were unceremoniously dumped into Kalimdor, which was done so hastily that the Worgen wasn't even fully programmed as a racial option in Darkshore quests.

I've heard speculation that it was done to balance the population, since if Worgen stayed in EK it would have been 4 races in Southern EK (Human, Dwarf, Gnome, Worgen) versus 2 in Kalimdor (Night Elf, Draenei). I'm not sure how well that holds up, though, since the Horde situation is 4 races in Kalimdor (Orc, Troll, Tauren, Goblin) versus 2 in EK (Forsaken, Blood Elf).

So, in theory, the Furbolg would have probably been a better fit in the niche that Worgen were forced into. In practice, I'm not so sure, since between Gnomes, Draenei, Worgen, the lack of follow-up on Dwarven intrigue, and the systematic removal of almost everything that separated Night Elves from generic Tolkien elves, Blizzard has developed a reputation for largely ignoring any Alliance race that is not human.
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  #61  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:11 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I largely agree and that's essentially what my point boils down to.

Also strangling while still in the cradle? That's got to be both the most horrific and best analogy I've heard in a while. It's definitely true that gameplay was what contributed to the biggest part of fucking over a playable race.
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  #62  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:13 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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They put the Worgen in Kalimdor because a Worgen District didn't fit look wise in Stormwind. Seriously, that was the reason as far as I can tell.
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  #63  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:28 AM
Arterius Arterius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Also strangling while still in the cradle? That's got to be both the most horrific and best analogy I've heard in a while.
Maybe it's because I was a Death Knight main, but violent infanticide just seemed like the best metaphor for how quickly the Worgen story came to an abrupt and disappointing conclusion.

Usually not a good sign of how well the story's been handled when such comparisons can be made.
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  #64  
Old 04-29-2014, 06:40 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
They put the Worgen in Kalimdor because a Worgen District didn't fit look wise in Stormwind. Seriously, that was the reason as far as I can tell.
Which doesn't stop them from celebrating Hallow's End in Stormwind's territory.

And what kind of house is a tree? It doesn't have plumbing or other great stuff that an actual house does. How does Bob Greymane keep tabs on his people if they're a continent away?
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  #65  
Old 04-29-2014, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Which doesn't stop them from celebrating Hallow's End in Stormwind's territory.

And what kind of house is a tree? It doesn't have plumbing or other great stuff that an actual house does. How does Bob Greymane keep tabs on his people if they're a continent away?
Not really much of one.

He apparently doesn't.

Yeah I think the reasoning was pretty poor myself. They could have just put the tree up in the part at least.
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  #66  
Old 04-29-2014, 07:07 AM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
They put the Worgen in Kalimdor because a Worgen District didn't fit look wise in Stormwind. Seriously, that was the reason as far as I can tell.
Except, being someone with historical architectural knowledge, I'm readily aware that it could've easily been made to work. The 'clash' excuse is total nonsense. All that would've needed to happen would be Gilnean buildings made with Stormwindic materials. Portland stone instead of Bath stone, I'd say.
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  #67  
Old 04-29-2014, 07:12 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Because the Worgen probably weren't meant to be 'furry night elves' until they ran out of time and stuck them in Kalimdor rather than the original plan of putting them in Stormwind.
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  #68  
Old 04-29-2014, 07:15 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
But you're not just playing worgen; you're playing Gilneans.
That's not a positive point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Thing is, the furbolg aren't furry night elves. They like forests, sure, but they've also got their own grand civilization in Grizzly Hills. They've got a connection to the aspects, sure, but really only the one, and they're not particularly druidic, seeming to prefer shamanism. They have historic ties to the night elves, sure, but they're also apparently quite distrustful of them in recent times (for reasons that were never really explained). In battle, they are bulwarks, not sentinels. They have no ties to the night, or Elune.

They would probably still be a bit of a better fit than the worgen, but not by as much as people seem to think. No matter what race is added (and I do think furbolg could work), the warcraft setting has it with at least a somewhat different tone and style.
Well, remember that some furbolgs are already in the Alliance, the Stillpine. They even have a Shaman instructor in the Exodar. So getting them in the Alliance could have allowed to develop their culture, but also to explain their interactions with the Night Elves and the Draeneļ. Furthermore, the Furbolgs are an extremely ancient race, dating as far as the Kaldoreļ Empire, at the very least, and they have both Ursoc and Ursol as Totemic Gods, a fact which could have given some sort of intern dynamic, with followers of Ursoc being more direct and brutal and their dealings with problems, while Ursol's flock could have been more subtle.

Last edited by Korath; 04-29-2014 at 07:19 AM..
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  #69  
Old 04-29-2014, 07:36 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Not really much of one.

He apparently doesn't.

Yeah I think the reasoning was pretty poor myself. They could have just put the tree up in the part at least.
Should have made the tree a very minor part of Gilnean architecture. Like say there's a base like Surwich, there's a tree next to it for botanical research. (It could have been the 'greenhouse' that some of us wanted to see as part of the architecture.)
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  #70  
Old 04-29-2014, 09:35 AM
Bullroarer Bullroarer is offline

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Going by the retconned rpg
Furbolg are a sad race, who get corrupted easily by the legion or the scourge. Perhaps the saddest race on Azeroth.

I also liked how the RPG mentioned Furbolg as having their own special class, Ursa Totemic, who could disembowel a dragaon with a blow.

For a city, if you go to Azshara, they have their own underground cave.

Then you have the stillpine furbolg and their questline

I love how their city in Northrend is filled with honeycombs.

Then you have the faction warfare between the two tribes of Furbolg in Northrend.


It would have been awesome to watch Furbolgs invade the mantid for tastey amber.
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  #71  
Old 04-29-2014, 11:34 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Quote:
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That's not a positive point.
Well that's just like your opinion man. (Which also happens to be wrong.)
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  #72  
Old 04-29-2014, 11:39 AM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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I feel like Worgen could have filled their own niche if Blizzard didn't hate the Alliance(Lol jking or am I?). Seriously, Worgen or just Gilneas in general could have had a good mix incorporating Druidism and Industrialism(or just Steampunk) together, wouldn't have been sidekicks to the Night Elves nor Stormwind.

Although I forsee the Alliance getting Furbolg's down the road anyway, more of a chance than High Elves anyawy.
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