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Old 04-06-2018, 12:35 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Default Collector’s Edition: A Tale of Two Novellas Preview

There are two sides to every story. Get a taste for the tension and drama that unfolds in this preview of our Battle for Azeroth novellas: Elegy by Christie Golden and A Good War by Robert Brooks. These two tales explore the Horde and the Alliance versions of a fateful event, but only you can decide which faction tells it best.


https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...f-two-novellas


Quote:
Saurfang’s lips pulled back into a snarl. The power of nature was not found in the swing of a fist or the slice of a blade. It was found when a forest was rent to dust by fire and yet returned in only a few years. It was found when a mighty city was claimed by overgrowth after being abandoned for a decade. It was found in a thousand generations of predator and prey, which lived and hunted by the instincts of their ancestors.

In the hands of a druid, that power could be condensed from centuries into a minute. In Malfurion’s hands . . .
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With a yowl of fury, Ferryn sprang toward the Forsaken, while—too slowly—Delaryn drew an arrow and nocked it to her bow. There was a blur, and then another rogue was there, a blood elf, slashing out with his own blades, long golden hair flying behind him like a cloak. In what seemed like the span of a single heartbeat, half a dozen night elves were left bleeding out or spasming in torment on the verdant forest floor.

Finally, the Sentinels rallied. The blood elf vanished at once, but no matter. They would catch him as he fled like the coward he was. They sent a rain of arrows toward the gaps in the trees, but hit nothing. The sin’dorei had eluded them.
In my opinion, the difference between Brooks and Golden is crystal clear. One is poetic, building phrase after phrase, metaphor on metaphor for a bigger, composed construction. The other is rushed and colludes a bunch of events in the same sentence.
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Old 04-06-2018, 03:27 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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I really wish they'd refrain from using "rogue" outside the game. It honestly doesn't fit in a proper narrative context because it's just a convenient tabletop RPG catch-all for a spy, assassin, thief, or a dozen other things involving wearing leather and using blades so that the game doesn't have to figure stats and skills for twenty classes instead of one. It's literally a gameplay class designation and nothing else, and it doesn't really feel natural for it to exist in the parlance of the people who live in the actual fantasy world.
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:01 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I really wish they'd refrain from using "rogue" outside the game. It honestly doesn't fit in a proper narrative context because it's just a convenient tabletop RPG catch-all for a spy, assassin, thief, or a dozen other things involving wearing leather and using blades so that the game doesn't have to figure stats and skills for twenty classes instead of one. It's literally a gameplay class designation and nothing else, and it doesn't really feel natural for it to exist in the parlance of the people who live in the actual fantasy world.
I've read a similar comment on Reddit, and that's on Golden's writing style.

There are better people out there for her position.
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:39 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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there are too many things that happen in goldens writing and its too much ehm.... "romantic" stuff ( i mean stuff like "The blood elves hair was like a lions mane, Golden locks like a silver fox" or whatever.

Too many details that are quite boring.

I dont really care about the exact locations of all pimples of an orc or the locations of all scars of a human is especially not if that fictional creature is going to get killed in the next paragraph.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:37 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I really wish they'd refrain from using "rogue" outside the game. It honestly doesn't fit in a proper narrative context because it's just a convenient tabletop RPG catch-all for a spy, assassin, thief, or a dozen other things involving wearing leather and using blades so that the game doesn't have to figure stats and skills for twenty classes instead of one. It's literally a gameplay class designation and nothing else, and it doesn't really feel natural for it to exist in the parlance of the people who live in the actual fantasy world.
Don't they use the term rogues in the rogue's class hall? Technically warrior and hunter can fall in the same category but people aren't offended at that.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:05 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Don't they use the term rogues in the rogue's class hall? Technically warrior and hunter can fall in the same category but people aren't offended at that.
And frankly that's weird too. What the hell even is a "rogue?" Every other class has a clear concept of what they are, but the rogue is literally just "leather-wearing melee DPS." It's a wholly game-based concept that doesn't really belong in the vernacular of WoW's inhabitants.

Warrior and hunter work because they're a lot more specific than "rogue." "Rogue" is some generalized term for a bunch of unrelated profession concepts lumped into one class not because they're even functionally related, but because their stats and equipment match.

A warrior, as represented by the player, is specifically a non-enlisted, non-magic-using fighter. People might roleplay on their time as a Sentinel, or a grunt, or a footman, but canonically the player warrior isn't those things because if we were, we'd be shoveling latrines and standing post instead of doing quests and running dungeons. A hunter's, well, a hunter; nothing ever suggests that the player hunter is a ranger, or a Sentinel huntress, or any of the other things that NPC's use the Hunter class setup to represent, and how the player functions kinda makes it so you can't really be those things. Conversely, the "rogue" is just kind of a scattershot description for "person who sneaks around in leather," with this vague implication that being one makes you an assassin, a spy, a thief, a swashbuckler and an army scout all at the same time. Moreover, the name itself encompasses this class-based idea of criminality, so characters referring to the player with it is like if they addressed us with "greetings, repeated felon whose misdeeds get ignored for purely gameplay reasons."

In fact it makes little sense that player "rogues" being involved in events is even a thing much of the time, because many of its encompassed roles include outright being a criminal who belongs in one's own faction's prison. It frequently seems weird that "rogues" are even parts of amything; much of the time they're supposedly murderers and thieves, yet...why are they allowed to continue thieving and murdering when they don't even have the excuse of being in SI:7?

It's admittedly hardly limited to WoW, but there's this weird "thing" in fantasy that's often taken me out of the story where for some reason a violent and larcenous criminal can declare himself as such and bizarrely be tolerated by everyone if he just calls himself an adventurer at the same time. As if being a violent felon is somehow endearing and cute. Such character archetypes in fantasy will often outright introduce themselves to prospective allies and heroes by identifying as a thief or assassin who preys on society at large and nobody's response is "then why the hell are we recruiting this guy and not arresting him and sparing everyone from being murdered and/or robbed by him? Consequently the idea of the "rogue" just feels wholly game-based on a level that other classes don't, so whenever a character addresses the player as as rogue, it comes across as artificial and fourth-wall-breaking to me.
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:15 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Matthias Shaw also says "we could use another rogue or two" during the Seething Shore bg as well.
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Old 04-06-2018, 10:21 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Boo Christie Golden. How is she even allowed to write?
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:40 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
A hunter's, well, a hunter; nothing ever suggests that the player hunter is a ranger, or a Sentinel huntress, or any of the other things that NPC's use the Hunter class setup to represent, and how the player functions kinda makes it so you can't really be those things.
Actually, that's not really accurate. Hunters have talents that do allow players to turn their hunters into one of the less generic professions you've mentioned.

For example, a player can turn their hunter into a Dark Ranger by taking the talent Dark Arrow, allowing them to raise undead creatures, or into a night elf Sentinel huntress by taking the talents Sentinel (Marksmanship) or Chakrams (B4A Survival)/Glaive Toss (MoP - WoD Hunter).

Last edited by Nazja; 04-07-2018 at 02:42 AM..
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:50 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Actually, that's not really accurate. Hunters have talents that do allow players to turn their hunters into one of the less generic professions you've mentioned.

For example, a player can turn their hunter into a Dark Ranger by taking the talent Dark Arrow, allowing them to raise undead creatures, or into a night elf Sentinel huntress by taking the talents Sentinel (Marksmanship) or Chakrams (B4A Survival)/Glaive Toss (MoP - WoD Hunter).
Except that's not making you a dark ranger, because the dark rangers are an organization that's specifically subject to the Forsaken and the military chain of command therein, while the hunter players are essentially autonomous. As Sentinels are also specifically soldiers in an army with strictly narrow associations. Learning their skills is just that: learning skills that were previously exclusively known by the dark rangers and Sentinels.

After all warlocks learning to use techniques previously exclusive to Illidan doesn't mean they're Illidari, and warriors using Avatar doesn't mean they're Mountain Kings. It means they figured out how to do things those groups also know how to do.

Last edited by ARM3481; 04-07-2018 at 02:53 AM..
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:33 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
And frankly that's weird too. What the hell even is a "rogue?" Every other class has a clear concept of what they are, but the rogue is literally just "leather-wearing melee DPS." It's a wholly game-based concept that doesn't really belong in the vernacular of WoW's inhabitants.

Warrior and hunter work because they're a lot more specific than "rogue." "Rogue" is some generalized term for a bunch of unrelated profession concepts lumped into one class not because they're even functionally related, but because their stats and equipment match.

A warrior, as represented by the player, is specifically a non-enlisted, non-magic-using fighter. People might roleplay on their time as a Sentinel, or a grunt, or a footman, but canonically the player warrior isn't those things because if we were, we'd be shoveling latrines and standing post instead of doing quests and running dungeons. A hunter's, well, a hunter; nothing ever suggests that the player hunter is a ranger, or a Sentinel huntress, or any of the other things that NPC's use the Hunter class setup to represent, and how the player functions kinda makes it so you can't really be those things. Conversely, the "rogue" is just kind of a scattershot description for "person who sneaks around in leather," with this vague implication that being one makes you an assassin, a spy, a thief, a swashbuckler and an army scout all at the same time. Moreover, the name itself encompasses this class-based idea of criminality, so characters referring to the player with it is like if they addressed us with "greetings, repeated felon whose misdeeds get ignored for purely gameplay reasons."

In fact it makes little sense that player "rogues" being involved in events is even a thing much of the time, because many of its encompassed roles include outright being a criminal who belongs in one's own faction's prison. It frequently seems weird that "rogues" are even parts of amything; much of the time they're supposedly murderers and thieves, yet...why are they allowed to continue thieving and murdering when they don't even have the excuse of being in SI:7?

It's admittedly hardly limited to WoW, but there's this weird "thing" in fantasy that's often taken me out of the story where for some reason a violent and larcenous criminal can declare himself as such and bizarrely be tolerated by everyone if he just calls himself an adventurer at the same time. As if being a violent felon is somehow endearing and cute. Such character archetypes in fantasy will often outright introduce themselves to prospective allies and heroes by identifying as a thief or assassin who preys on society at large and nobody's response is "then why the hell are we recruiting this guy and not arresting him and sparing everyone from being murdered and/or robbed by him? Consequently the idea of the "rogue" just feels wholly game-based on a level that other classes don't, so whenever a character addresses the player as as rogue, it comes across as artificial and fourth-wall-breaking to me.
RPGs should have been using Scoundrel in place of Rogue.
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Old 04-15-2018, 09:40 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
It's admittedly hardly limited to WoW, but there's this weird "thing" in fantasy that's often taken me out of the story where for some reason a violent and larcenous criminal can declare himself as such and bizarrely be tolerated by everyone if he just calls himself an adventurer at the same time. As if being a violent felon is somehow endearing and cute. Such character archetypes in fantasy will often outright introduce themselves to prospective allies and heroes by identifying as a thief or assassin who preys on society at large and nobody's response is "then why the hell are we recruiting this guy and not arresting him and sparing everyone from being murdered and/or robbed by him? Consequently the idea of the "rogue" just feels wholly game-based on a level that other classes don't, so whenever a character addresses the player as as rogue, it comes across as artificial and fourth-wall-breaking to me.
I've felt that applies even more to Warlocks. In the original lore it was outright stated that the Legion feeds them power to corrupt them and use them as a 5th column. Even disregarding that they are sorcerers who dabble in the darkest magics and cavort with demons in plain sight. They drain souls and use them for their rituals and seem to seek the most painful ways to kill their enemies, their magic inevitably drains the land of all life... and the list goes on.
Not sure how relevant that is these days, probably not too much since Blizzard wants all players to feel powerful and so the warlocks control demons and never the other way around. The fantasy is that you dabble with the most powerful and corrupting of magics but you are strong enough to remain in control.

Anyhow you'd expect warlocks to be hunted by mobs wherever they showed their face. They are not just outlaws like rogues but outlaws that commit horrific magical sins. Same goes for DKs. DHs too probably.

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I'm not sure it's meant to be a "defanging of the night elves," per se. It feels more like a symptom of the game bleeding into the story. The Alliance excerpt has all the hallmarks of trying to appeal to the fanservice sensibilities of people who play the game. Thus we have rogues who aren't just really skilled; the methodology of how they're portrayed makes them effectively inserts for "the player" as we exist in the game, effortlessly chopping apart a bunch of nameless soldiers before vanishing unscathed, then bumping off the enemy's poorly defended hierarchy of officers as they're in the midst of their own armies.

Why? Not because the night elves are specifically meant to appear weak or inept, but because it's representative of how these things work when the player is doing them in the game. It comes across like an outright transplant of how we defeat enemy armies via quests. The only thing missing was the blood elf rogue being shown grabbing a dozen of something scattered around the night elf camp and dousing a half-dozen braziers of some sort between killing Sentinels.

Which is a problem in and of itself, albeit a different problem. And I can't help thinking it might be intentional. Marketing-wise Blizzard may well think it's great to lace stories with blatant reminders of the meta-game regardless of how it can adversely affect the flow and feel of the stories themselves.
Yeah I agree, just how I said that the Warlock fantasy is that you are a powerful sorcerer who can dabble with the most powerful and horrible entities and come out on top the Rogue fantasy is being able to sneak in and out of any place and butcher anyone in a jawdropping display of skill.
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:42 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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and so the warlocks control demons and never the other way around. The fantasy is that you dabble with the most powerful and corrupting of magics but you are strong enough to remain in control.
WC: O&H warlocks are the bestest WC warlocks. They were the chessmasters and puppeteers. Heroes for their people.

Roleplayed warlocks should be WC1 warlocks.

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Old 04-08-2018, 01:07 AM
Samariyu Samariyu is offline

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I agree, OP. In general, I find Golden's style to be "I write to convey information" with a flowery description thrown in here or there. I don't often find myself immersed or transported to whatever scene she's trying to portray.

Still, I'm eager to read both of them, if only to have some hot new lore details to throw around later. I greatly look forward to reading Brooks's novella. The snippets I've seen of Malfurion are TIGHT.

Personally, my impression of Brooks's Malfurion is he's acting almost completely out-of-character from what we've seen prior. But the character shown is such a drastic improvement, that I don't even care. I hope we see more of this Malfurion, and I hope he doesn't bite the bullet. I'm afraid that he might be getting the Varian treatment, which is to say Blizzard makes me like him for 5 minutes before killing him off.
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Old 04-08-2018, 08:25 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Personally, my impression of Brooks's Malfurion is he's acting almost completely out-of-character from what we've seen prior. But the character shown is such a drastic improvement, that I don't even care. I hope we see more of this Malfurion, and I hope he doesn't bite the bullet. I'm afraid that he might be getting the Varian treatment, which is to say Blizzard makes me like him for 5 minutes before killing him off.
I'm not sure he's that out of character. Blizzard has wanted us to believe that he does care, but that in the past he was occupied. This is them showing that and not just telling us that.

I share your concerns that we're about to lose him though. The Horde is losing Saurfang (or he is at least being put in the hands of the Alliance for a while) and Horde players have been howling for the deaths of main Alliance characters for a while.

It's just a problem for me that whenever Blizzard looks to give the Horde wins over the Alliance, they routinely turn to the same playable race to give it to them.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:16 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I didn't know that Andorhal, Theramore, Southshore, Hillsbrad, or Gilneas were night elven. And that is not counting the RTS games. Well, we learn something new every day.
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Old 04-08-2018, 09:39 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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I didn't know that Andorhal, Theramore, Southshore, Hillsbrad, or Gilneas were night elven. And that is not counting the RTS games. Well, we learn something new every day.
I probably should have used "usually" instead of "routinely", but neither mean "always". Eh, but since you want to fight over this, I will add some things.

I would have hoped you would have been aware that I'm not criticizing the RTS games.

Gilneas was returned to the Gilneans after the Forsaken Cata questing. Well done, doggos.

Theramore, Southshore, Hillsbrad and Andorhal (a-ha! You missed one) are fair.
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