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  #10801  
Old 02-18-2019, 08:40 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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There were never any "good old days" of SoL. It's always been a rather toxic place when it came to certain topics. You can go back 10 years ago in the archives and find people (who would later become mods) casually tossing slurs around. The laissez-faire approach of the mods/admins is nothing to praise. This site-sanctioned anarchy is exactly what allowed those toxic tendencies to take root and thrive here. It was inevitable that it would eventually come to a head and drive people away after festering for so long.
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  #10802  
Old 02-18-2019, 04:01 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
I dunno. When I came back I recall a few people said they appreciated having someone that wasn't contributing to the right-wing political circlejerk that was apparently going on. The rest of the forum was already dead and the attempts to stop the toxicity were too late.
Hell, back in the day as much moderation wasn't needed because everyone understood that internet forums will ban you for blatant flaming and slurs pertaining to race or sexual orientation. It seems people have this weird backwards nostalgia where they think forums all didn't have rules and everyone was free to post the most vile shit possible. That is really a very new thing.
Moderation wasn't needed because you were insulted back, and if you were a permanent asshole, people just stopped talking to you.

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If people were mature enough not to be offended by bullshit people post on this forum, them they wouldn't have left this forum for an alternative conservative echo chamber.
They didn't leave, you forced them out. Now go and cry there's no one left.

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
There were never any "good old days" of SoL. It's always been a rather toxic place when it came to certain topics. You can go back 10 years ago in the archives and find people (who would later become mods) casually tossing slurs around. The laissez-faire approach of the mods/admins is nothing to praise. This site-sanctioned anarchy is exactly what allowed those toxic tendencies to take root and thrive here. It was inevitable that it would eventually come to a head and drive people away after festering for so long.
Those "toxic tendencies" didn't appear until moderators started solving discussions by abusing their powers instead of winning arguments with words, like we always did.
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  #10803  
Old 02-18-2019, 07:44 PM
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They didn't leave, you forced them out. Now go and cry there's no one left.
The only one forced to leave was Hammerbrew. I'm sorry you no longer consider this to be a safe space, though.
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  #10804  
Old 02-18-2019, 09:24 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Those "toxic tendencies" didn't appear until moderators started solving discussions by abusing their powers instead of winning arguments with words, like we always did.
1. I don't agree with that at all. Hammer and others were plenty toxic before moderators started cracking down on the racial slurs and open bigotry floating around.


2. Well if you're so unhappy here Lon-ami, why not find greener pastures like the others did?

3. Honestly the site's only seeing low traffic because it was so slow for so long and Warlock hasn't been interested in advertising or updating it much at all. The discord's lively and it'd be relatively simple to drum up new blood by putting out feelers to related sites whenever Blizz or related games do any lore related announcements.
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  #10805  
Old 02-18-2019, 10:25 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
There were never any "good old days" of SoL. It's always been a rather toxic place when it came to certain topics. You can go back 10 years ago in the archives and find people (who would later become mods) casually tossing slurs around. The laissez-faire approach of the mods/admins is nothing to praise. This site-sanctioned anarchy is exactly what allowed those toxic tendencies to take root and thrive here. It was inevitable that it would eventually come to a head and drive people away after festering for so long.
Honestly? That good old "free speech cage match" thing we had going on is maybe the one thing that could have saved the site. Seriously, we were able to tolerate an open pol/ack for months which is pretty laudable in terms of free speech tolerance and I would not have even banned Galdus but I would force him to spam his charts and graphs into a dedicated thread in the Halls of Lordaeron.

Like what is even SoL now? Interest in Warcraft lore is dying because it has been a total shitshow for years, worse the core SoL crowd mostly lost their passion for Warcraft. If we tried a dedicated campaign to revive the site who can we even recruit? I don't think there is enough interest and young blood to just work off of the "warcraft lore gimmick." And trying to revive it as a geek site is probably hopeless since there are probably a hundred places ahead of us in that game.
But if we had kept that stringed free speech ethos it would make us unique on a field of competition where increasingly censorship is taking hold.

It would have preserved the awesome community we had better than Cantus' moderation crusade too. How many people left for various reasons, it is a damn shame what the site was and what it is now. Not to mention I am not seeing too much passion for reviving it either, I am sad to say I think next time it is time to pay the rent Warlock will not do it and I can't blame him.

What I would have done is, tried to rebrand SoL as site for general nerdery where free speech is greatly valued. I would condemn politics and other topics of controversy into HoL, and the most controversial stuff into specific quarantine threads. I would moderate very little, just stopping open abuse and punishments would follow a gradient (1 day, 3, 7, month, 3, 6, goodbye though that would be flexible for the worse offenders, mainly people who are shitposting because they want to be banned)
But that was needed before the site went into meltdown, given all that has happened it might be impossible. Though if there is a concentrated effort to save SoL I will join it, for old times sakes if nothing else, I miss the good times.
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  #10806  
Old 02-18-2019, 11:57 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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The only one forced to leave was Hammerbrew. I'm sorry you no longer consider this to be a safe space, though.
The only one forced to leave? Define "force".

The rules were very clearly set up against the Conservative leaning posters here, and it was something I had brought up multiple times as a "Hey, this is an obvious bias". As a rule, they were brash, upfront and would say outright what they wanted.

The people who didn't leave, who still post here, were all way more toxic than even the worst of Hammer. You have Genesis gaslighting and insulting, Kak threatening violence, and then defending it with "OHH OHH I NEVER SAID THAT I WOULD, JUST THAT I WAS WILLING TO PROTECT AGAINST FOREIN AND DOMESTIC THREATS HUE HUE HUE". They did and do ALL the same stuff that got the other side called out, they just weren't upfront about it. Even Noitora pointed out it wasn't about what was said, but about how sneaky and underhanded you could say it.

Fuck that.

Insults, nasty horrible venom, threats of violence, mods trying to dox people to prove they were double plus no good probationary ebul members of stormfront, ignored reports or using "Well, we aren't really happy with how he's acting but hue hue hue, he didn't really break the rules on a technicality!", repeated requests and pointing out how the rules were being abused by one side with moderation purposely letting it go.


People certainly weren't forced to leave as in banned. But it was made more than clear that one political side was being supported and given a pass.

So why stay where you aren't wanted.
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  #10807  
Old 02-19-2019, 07:01 AM
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I think it's telling that the folks defending the old 'stringent free speech' were rarely on the end of abuse from folks like Hammer, and I feel that they're exaggerating how bad Cantus was.
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  #10808  
Old 02-19-2019, 10:03 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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It's my belief that the reason Kakawas hasn't been seriously punished is because of nepotism, not his politics. He's one of the oldest posters on the site. Same reason Omacron was made an admin when he was like 12, and Bolvar and Cantus got mod powers. Who in their right minds would allow any of that? SoL has always been kind of a shitshow when it comes to rules and moderation. When it's finally decided to enforce what are pretty basic rules for public discourse (no slurs, racism, bigotry) there was inevitable friction with people who thought they should have the right to spew whatever hateful bullshit they wanted. Some moderators got too zealous and people were butthurt.

Thinking this site has it in for conservative posters is some next level paranoia. Warlock is pretty openly conservative. I refuse to believe y'all aren't deliberately misrepresenting events when you say someone like Hammer was banned for his views and politics, rather than being a toxic dickhole literally always. How hard is it not to say hateful shit all the time? FFS
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #10809  
Old 02-19-2019, 10:11 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
I think it's telling that the folks defending the old 'stringent free speech' were rarely on the end of abuse from folks like Hammer, and I feel that they're exaggerating how bad Cantus was.
Right, they were getting abuse from the other end, but again, rarely as direct, but it was just as vitriolic. And when it was reported, it got the same "We aren't happy with it but technically not breaking any rules!" responses.

As for Cantus and people overreacting?

It really wasn't. He had a power trip. He purposely tried to purge the forum. It succeeded. Now the place is dead. And we can say it was the website acting slow, but it wasn't. Because people still came and discussed when it was slow. It being slow and acting up was a known issue for like, half a year before the shit show. I was losing entire posts in the politics thread.

I say this as someone who likes Cantus to a certain degree. I don't have a problem with Kak, or really, Genesis, or some of the other extremely vitriolic posters that still exist. I have an issue with the rules not being upheld, and being set up to only slam one side. Everyone here had annoying posting habits that grated. PJ, Hammer, especially Galdus, Genya, Zog, you, Kak, Genesis, Yak, Verde.

That's kind of the point of dealing with people though. You deal with their annoying shit and if you want to give, your gonna get. And both sides gave. Only one side got when moderation stepped in.

It's over. It's in the past. The website here isn't going to recover unless this shit is put in the past, and in all honesty bitching about it isn't going to change it.

Scrolls of Lore was something special, even for fansites. It's userbase was creative, dedicated, and more than a little insane. That spark still exists.

Capitalize on it by turning it into a general geek den, with focus on story and worlds of our favorite franchises. Expand the creative section. We have VA talent here. Grab a handful of them and have then create audio libraries of all the books in game, create lore videos and shit like nobbel, for whatever franchise you want.

That will draw traffic, but it's not going to stay if we keep the A) vitriolic "We resent everyone who isn't us" attitudese, and B) unwillingness to try and move on from this.


Quote:
Warlock is pretty openly conservative. I refuse to believe y'all aren't deliberately misrepresenting events when you say someone like Hammer was banned for his views and politics, rather than being a toxic dickhole literally always. How hard is it not to say hateful shit all the time? FFS
Warlock isn't much involved anymore.


As for being a toxic dickhole, not really unique to hammer. Because yeah, he could take it to far. I don't argue that. In general, most of the time, he was a good poster, and I even supported his ban. I did not support the Permaban. I was pretty vocal about it at the time. I even suggested a 6 month ban, and that one of the biggest issues SoL had with punishment is that they went from "LOL WE ARE GOING TO POST AN ASS OF SOMEONE WHICH IS NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK ENCOURAGING THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR" to "Ok, Permabanned".


There was no progressive punishment, no real reason to think it would have been anything other than the temp ban it always was before.


And it was already a shit show because some admin decided to ban words and the rest of the mod team let it happen. And that killed any trust had in the mods. Not even slurs. Fucking Cuck. "Ohh but Cuck wasn't really banned he just said don't use it so often and in inventive ways because its a lazy insult!"

Meanwhile, Liberal Cucks overhere were calling everyone Trumpets and laughing at how clever their little in joke is like the NPC's they are. (and, I mean, if you can't see how I'm pointing out that tribes create more or less harmless monikers to describe the other side, I don't know what to tell you).

"But the RACIAL CONNOTATIONS OF CUCK, Trumpet", you say, in the highest and most shrill voice you are able to produce, aided by your testosterone levels tanked due to years of soy consumption, as you stare smugly, mouth agape, at the probably rich, religious WHITE FUCKING MALE on the other end of the keyboard, completely oblivious to the racial connotations society and media has applied to Trump Support, true or not (again, tribes. stereotypes for the opposition)


People are shit bags. People have always been shitbags. People have decided that tolerance isn't good enough. You have to accept them for being shitbags, or get rid of anyone who doesn't.


Tolerance is just another thing killed by Millennials
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  #10810  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:03 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Well, that reads as more than a little unhinged. Just 4chan word vomit run-on sentences as far as I can tell. There might have been a point in somewhere in that mess, but it's completely lost in the gobshite rhetoric. Seriously what on earth are you talking about?
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  #10811  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:14 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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well, that reads as more than a little unhinged. Just 4chan word vomit run-on sentences as far as i can tell. There might have been a point in somewhere in that mess, but it's completely lost in the gobshite rhetoric. Seriously what on earth are you talking about?
oh no somebody is accusing someone else of rhetoric before he pulls out the buzzwords!

And yes, he was banned for his politics.
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  #10812  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:16 PM
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oh no somebody is accusing someone else of rhetoric before he pulls out the buzzwords!
you sound paranoid. Get off of /pol/
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #10813  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:18 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
you sound paranoid.
(It's almost like that's the point and I'm reflecting all your silly fear mongering of those ebul bigots and 4channers on purpose)
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Get off of /pol/
OHH, another buzzword. Fun!
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  #10814  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:19 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Yeah, that devolved into a /pol/-fueled rant there. You might want to take a break from 4chan for a bit.
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  #10815  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:19 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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(It's almost like that's the point and I'm reflecting all your silly fear mongering of those ebul bigots and 4channers on purpose)
"Jokes on them I was only pretending"
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #10816  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:21 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
"Jokes on them I was only pretending"
I mean, I even put it in the post.

Quote:
(and, I mean, if you can't see how I'm pointing out that tribes create more or less harmless monikers to describe the other side, I don't know what to tell you).

(again, tribes. stereotypes for the opposition)
It's funny, because I did that for the sole reason of knowing you people would react a certain way as soon as you started reading it. Even when it's clearly stated I'm pointing out the absurdity of getting your panties in a twist over memetic words, and that each side has them.

And, your immediate response? Let's throw out those memetic insults and accusations of 4-chan and pol.
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  #10817  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:23 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Just so you know, cuck has been used nearly 7 times as much as trumpet. And a large number of the trumpet usages were done by conservative posters like PJ as well. Plus some simply meant the instrument.
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  #10818  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:26 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Just so you know, cuck has been used nearly 7 times as much as trumpet. And a large number of the trumpet usages were done by conservative posters like PJ as well. Plus some simply meant the instrument.
All of which is irrelevant to the fact that it was a memetic word that was used more often by one side and banned for a silly power trip.
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  #10819  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:30 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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All of which is irrelevant to the fact that it was a memetic word that was used more often by one side and banned for a silly power trip.
There's a bit of a difference between "haha here's a silly name for people who support this politician" and "here's a pointed insult at people of a certain political ideology that I've decided are into a weird fetish." You'd have a closer comparison if you went with "incel," but even that doesn't quite fit.
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Old 02-19-2019, 12:37 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
There's a bit of a difference between "haha here's a silly name for people who support this politician" and "here's a pointed insult at people of a certain political ideology that I've decided are into a weird fetish." You'd have a closer comparison if you went with "incel," but even that doesn't quite fit.
You are right, Racist would be a much better comparison to Cuck, which I pointed out at the time. After all, its a pointed insult at people of a certain political ideology that you've all decided hate people for no reason. And it's got the added bonus, as Cantus oh so adamant at pointing out, of doing real world harm.

Course, when I pointed out it was being used the same way, Cantus bitched out instead of addressing it because reasons.
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  #10821  
Old 02-19-2019, 12:38 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I mean, I even put it in the post.



It's funny, because I did that for the sole reason of knowing you people would react a certain way as soon as you started reading it. Even when it's clearly stated I'm pointing out the absurdity of getting your panties in a twist over memetic words, and that each side has them.

And, your immediate response? Let's throw out those memetic insults and accusations of 4-chan and pol.
Yeah, well it wasn't exactly easy to tell what you meant. As I said, it was mostly gibberish.
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Now imagine a music, dear readers, heavy with cellos at a rapid staccato. Cellos held between thighs in a dark room. The little room of Harry's chest as he walks with his teammates to the opening gate of his first Test of Cribbage. They are a rag-tag group of champions, this bunch, and with Harry, the near-perfect new god, they know they will dominate the day. Harry is a world laced with rivers of wizardly blood. He is ready.
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  #10822  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:16 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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It just bothers me how Conservatives go on about how Liberals are too sensitive, and they need safe spaces, but then everyone on the right of the aisle left in a huff when some asshole was banned for ignoring repeated warnings to stop being a dickhead, claiming that they aren't allowed to be themselves.

Cantus pretty obviously fucked things up, mind you. It's just rich that the conservatives all decided they needed their own safe space away from the meanies who would permaban someone after several temp bans and warnings.
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  #10823  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:39 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Is the Rules and Regs thread really the best place for this? What is actually intended atm? What do folks like C9 and Ruin want DONE?
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  #10824  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:43 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Is the Rules and Regs thread really the best place for this? What is actually intended atm? What do folks like C9 and Ruin want DONE?
One of their main goals for the past few years has been to get me banned because I say things they don't like while following the rules. One of their favorites to bring up are the times I responded the surge in violent right-wing groups by saying I'm willing to defend myself and my family.
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  #10825  
Old 02-19-2019, 03:00 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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You sort of forgot your trollish, disruptive, and often outright toxic behavior in that list. Just like Hammerbrew was banned for his behavior, not political stances, the drive to ban you was largerly driven by your behavior, not political stances, as well.
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