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  #351  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:40 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Make me.
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  #352  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:44 PM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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You'll see!

I'll get my spymaster to add a 10% assassination possibility in a possible assassination that will only happen if I get 250 gold D:<
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  #353  
Old 03-02-2013, 05:50 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Damn, only 10% is my bounty? I guess I'll have to let that sink in for a while.

Anyway, for some reason I am highly intrigued by dragons and drakonid in the setting. Sometimes I think it would have been really cool if we got a race of dragons or a class that based itself around dragons. But other than that I actually think there are parts of the Lore about dragons that can be interesting without constantly involving the dragon aspects and I wouldn't mind seeing more of that expanded on.
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  #354  
Old 03-02-2013, 06:43 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Eliphas View Post
I feel this is relevant;

*comic*

(original artist and art here; http://ackanime.deviantart.com/art/A...Pity-357177943. fun stuff)
I expected something... different, judging by the second panel.
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Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

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  #355  
Old 03-03-2013, 06:26 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Default Some thoughts on the nature of the universe... of warcraft.

What if the Void mentioned to be an integral part of the universe wasn't some form of energy but an actual void, as in an absence of the only other thing in existence, the Light.

Therefore rather then be a mixture of two different types of energy the universe is composed of an intricate interplay of shapes and hollows. This could be used to make one "side" stronger then the other depending on the nature of the Light and the relative ratio of Void and Light, for example Light could pierce (as in fill up a void) Darkness easily and be "stronger" but the Void could be more present. Other properties are possible as well with this setup.

If we add a cosmic mechanic which makes the Light have a tendency to escape (move) or better yet gravitate, then this explains perfectly why Naaru seem to darken naturally but can only regain their Light by cannibalizing their environment for it.

Same can be said for that artifact that became the key component of the sword Ashbringer, it was almost fully a void but then got filled up with the Light when the holymen of Lordaeron empowered it.

Another thing that needs to be accounted for is the fact that the Light reacts to thoughts of sapient species. The simplest solution I can come up with is that elemental Light particles (or energy strings) can form relatively bigger structures (though still very, very small) which link up in a gigantic web that spans the universe (though is not equally dense everywhere, which accounts for holy and unholy ground).
This web acts like billions and billions of neurons, however it is not as structurally complex as the brains of thinking beings, still it is immense and as such it has primitive psychic potential. Through this psychic link beings can interact with this Light field, and those who have an imposing will can pull on the Light field through the psychic link. Therefore Light users basically make the Light "neuron" web echo their thoughts (again all conventional Light users have great willpower), and this copy persona within the Light is what gives the power to the priest/paladin.
One thing that strengthens this theory is that we have never seen anyone who got Void powers just because they were really evil or faithless, which fits in with the idea that the Void is an actual emptiness and as such it can't grant anything on its own, it has to be manipulated by an external force to be meaningful.

Now if this tendency of Light to gravitate that I proposed is tied to actual gravitation (albeit in a novel way) then it could be that runaway Light leaves to the greatest centers of gravity in the universe, the stars. And here due to high concentrations of itself Light energy activates into visible light and heads out again, in a sort of cycle. This can account for tauren Sunwalkers, who would indeed be getting their Light powers from the Sun in this case. Who knows it is possible that their faith interacts with the Light web within the Sun and actually creates An'she as an amalgamation of all tauren worshipers. This could be how naru and similar creatures are born. This could explain Elune as well.

I might add more later.

Last edited by C9H20; 03-03-2013 at 06:35 PM..
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  #356  
Old 03-03-2013, 07:32 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Also, one might consider that where we encounter the Void's inhabitants intruding upon the physical plane, just by being present they draw in energy and material from around them, quickly draining ambient life and magic as well as gradually degrading the physical integrity of their surroundings.

With few exceptions, entities from the Void seem primarily motivated by hunger when drawn into the physical world rather than complex goals and desires. One needs only look at a number of notable Voidspawns' in-game dialogue. They generally address players by way of noting their abundance of life force, speak of growing stronger or rendering a player "empty" when they kill a player, and upon death usually mention being returned to the Void.

Additionally warlocks' pets seem reluctant to even enter the physical plane, as if being summoned in such a manner is some form of torment for them, perhaps because it means being completely immersed in energies and matter they would wish to consume, yet being prevented by the warlock's control from doing so.

Another property often seen in powerful Void creatures is the ability to take on the properties of energies they devour for a time, further playing into the idea that their very nature acts as a "vacuum", innately devouring any energy with which it comes into contact and, for a time, adopting some of that energy's properties until its emptiness fully consumes and disperses it.

Also the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow is implied to acknowledge this, with its emphasis upon not delving too deeply into the darkness, lest you never find your way back. Such would make sense in the context of the Void being the state of absolute darkness and lacking, like a universally present "black hole" from which something of the physical plane can't come back once it's fully crossed the threshold and left all Light and existence behind.

It also fits thematically with the idea of dark magics so often touting the price of life/blood/souls/pain in exchange for power. The nature of the Void's "negative" energies comes across as infinite emptiness - in a way, anti-existence - that increases in strength by siphoning it from other, finite sources native to existence. So the closer one's magic gets to the Void's end of the "spectrum", the more dependent one's spells becomes upon fueling themselves by draining energy from similarly finite outside sources, while other magics like regular arcane, nature, Light and elemental energies seem ultimately drawn from their universal presence throughout physical reality itself rather than leeching what limited energy is present in a given vessel.

Last edited by ARM3481; 03-03-2013 at 07:37 PM..
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  #357  
Old 03-03-2013, 09:01 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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@ARM But what exactly happens to the Light that is drawn in, in your theory?

It is not clear to me but the way I understood it is that you think anything that is Void dominated has a tendency to scatter the Light and create more Void, and it uses siphoned Light to fuel the scattering of the same. If so I like it.

In my own personal theory I imagine that the universe began as highly dense glob of Light (possibly infinitely dense) then expansion began and the Light matter started to grow thinner and thinner until at certain points Voids began to appear. This was the "crash" of Light and Void, the moment they began coexisting in the universe and created the vast diversity of it.
I find it interesting since when all of what I wrote is taken in it brings together all of the three creation stories mentioned by Blizzard, the Big Bang (Light expansion), Clash of Light and Void and the Omnipotent Entity (in the form of the Light Web, though this last one is tenuous).

But if I take in your idea it gives the Void a more proactive approach, it causes the Void, a fundamental feature of the universe, to have an indirect effect on the universe which causes more of itself. This is more interesting thematically then just having the Void be a consequence of Light expansion.

For example if the Void ever became too successful it would create massive fissures in the universe, these fissures would be areas of low (or even negative) pressure and would cause the expansion of the universe to slow, and eventually collapse in on itself. This way too much Void will lead to the destruction of itself, quite poetic.

For a while now I have hypothesized that the hell Sylvanas, and presumably Arthas, saw in fact was one such mega Void and in it the high Light density of their souls is simply unraveling in the presence of so pure a Void. Their Light expands into the great Void, and after a while they cease to exist, torn asunder by the Void. This explains the feeling of being tormented and shredded relentlessly perfectly.

As for why would they end up there in the first place? My thinking is that the Light Web I mentioned in the previous post is, while not fully sentient, at least semi-sentient. After all it contains a universe worth of sentient echos, the thoughts of every creature that exists reverberate throughout the web. And seeing that natural evolution favors friendly, social beings it stands to reason that this Universal Will would be hostile to evil people, and so it casts them out to the only place where the Light Web is not present, the pure Void.

Another possibility is that the echos within the Light Web are in fact nothing other then souls. This would explain why only sapient beings have true souls while animals and other entities only have communal souls, which were probably produced by the interactions of truly sapient beings anyhow. This both provides a highly plausible reason souls endure after death and why undead have a dark moral bend. We know that the undead are undead because their souls are imperfectly tethered to their bodies, and if the souls are a manifestation of the Light then an imperfect connection would naturally involve an increased amount of Void.

Well, I could go on and on since this theorycrafting is highly interesting but I'll leave it at this.
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  #358  
Old 03-03-2013, 09:41 PM
Porimlys Porimlys is offline

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My brother is playing through wc3 and he's on the level when Grom is fighting against the forces of Cenarius and Cenarius says "I have defeated your kind in ages past, and I will do so again!".

What the hell is he talking about? Is it just big talk for the sake of big talk? Does he think they're demons?
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  #359  
Old 03-03-2013, 09:51 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Does he think they're demons?
I think so.
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  #360  
Old 03-03-2013, 09:54 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Does he think they're demons?
Probably. They're bright green, have giant tusks, wear armor with spikes, and are built like brick privies. Combine that with them hacking away at the forests and the possibility that Cenarius can sense the residual fel taint on them, and him assuming they were some new felguard-analogue (which they kinda were for the first two wars) isn't unreasonable.
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  #361  
Old 03-03-2013, 10:08 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
@ARM But what exactly happens to the Light that is drawn in, in your theory?
Light would "cease to be" in the nonexistence that is the Void, simultaneously as the Void "becomes" the Light filling it. In a hypothetically "equal" collision between the two (like, say, at the dawn of creation in WC), they could instigate a perpetual cycle of balanced universal creation and obliteration, which could arguably be construed as the impetus behind the very laws of creation, destruction, and reality as a whole that define the WarCraft universe. The naaru even mention the need for Void as part of an eternal and ongoing balance that exists between it and Light throughout creation, after all.

Hence when the void god Entropius is destroyed, he reverts to a force of Light (not specifically back to M'uru himself, but the fundamental transition back to Light still exists). To be filled once more with Light is to cease being Void, just as to lose all Light is to become Void. Joining the Light is an inherent state of gain, while joining the Void is an utter state of loss.

The way the Light is often portrayed, it radiates, filling and connecting all things that exist. It's an inherently outward-projected force, perhaps best exemplified by willpower, which at its core is an expression of projected intent and consequential deed. The Light needn't be sentient itself to manifest the basic, metaphysical state that arises in sentient beings as willpower. It's the very source of action and event toward function and purpose, and arguably without being framed as a sentient intent, that could theoretically be considered the basis for fundamental physical law.

The Void is fundamentally inward-oriented, ever hungering for anything that isn't itself. Its hunger is unending and insatiable, because as long as it remains Void it is that very hunger. It embodies the antithesis of everything because it is the ultimate state of nothingness, and its all-consuming hunger to the exclusion of all other purpose exists in counterpoint to the willpower that accompanies the Light. When bottomless hunger is all there is, there is no true will at all, but only compulsive servitude to the singular impulse to consume.

I'm also caused to remember the Ask CDev's response concerning certain Shadow-based priest abilities like Mind Flay on this. It essentially ties the "psychic"-themed abilities to the Shadow, and "heart"-based to the Light. Notwithstanding the literal biological definition, the romanticized concept of the "heart" derives from ideas of the one's inner spirit and soul. Both factors that, in WarCraft, are implied to tie and bind all things together.

The spirit is frequently tied to one's willpower, the force that allows one to strive and persevere against all odds, when logic and reason insist upon the futility of one's endeavors, forming conclusions projection fo faith and hope. The mind is tied to cold reason, self-preservation and instinct, drawing its conclusions from information drawn out of its surroundings. The soul is what connects all things through the Light, but the mind is potentially what encompasses identity and singular self, and defines the individual as a being distinct from the rest.

Neither is necessarily good or bad because among the beings living in the WC universe, neither is truly exclusive to the other. Every person is a combination of willpower and intellect - of the spirit and the mind - because they're born of a reality that's comprised of the forces responsible for the existence of both. They can rationally know that there's no reasonable chance of winning, yet fight on regardless in the hope of winning anyway. They can be confronted with overwhelming hopelessness and despair, yet still analyze the situation and find that small calculated glimmer of a shot at victory. When balance exists between the two - Light and Void, soul and mind, willpower and intellect - they comprise fundamental components of life and the universe as a whole.

Which isn't to say they can't be thrown out of balance on a universal scale. That's essentially what the Burning Legion's been trying to do, and it's why the naaru accept the necessity of the Void, yet see a need for the Legion's destruction. The Light wholly creates, while the Void utterly destroys, and so to remake the universe the Dark Titan and his servants ultimately seek to disrupt the balance between the two and force creation fully toward the obliteration embodied by the Void, allowing complete annihilation to devour the cosmos, in the belief that doing so will then leave only total emptiness within which they believe they can start over and create a new universe.

And what's more, it's pretty heavily suggested that if they aren't stopped, the Burning Legion can at least succeed in that first part. The second part, it's not so clear. If the Void truly devours all Light, it may be that nothing can bring it back.

Incidentally, none of this theory (which it is, naturally) outright negates the possibility of your star/gravity-oriented hypotheses. In a way, a star could be said to be a powerfully visible embodiment of the interaction between Light and Void. It puts out Light, ever moving toward the day when it "runs out" and becomes "empty", and at the same time its "Void state" grows ever stronger in tandem, serving as the gravitational force that keeps it from all simply radiating outward at once. Even in real life, stars are said to be expending their fuel over the eons, which could also be construed as "expending their Light". That Light radiates outward, feeding worlds and nurturing life, within which Light endures. and through willpower, it spreads, potentially to other worlds by way of life spreading beyond the confines of their own. Yet over time a star itself might eventually collapse as its Light runs out, imploding and essentially becoming Void, at which point it would no longer radiate outward, but rather would only draw inward. And with no more Light to send, it would no longer provide Light and life to any world within reach, but rather would potentially pull such worlds into itself, devouring them.

And yet, as long as the balance remains in place, who's to say such a dead star might not eventually "get its fill" so to speak, pulling in enough Light from outside itself to instigate a shift back to the way it was, and being reborn as a new star radiating once more and sending Light and life to new worlds? In the WarCraft universe the Light's "engine of creation" is likely ever-creating, just as its counterpart is ever-destroying, and as long as that balance isn't undone, anything that's seemingly lost might be remade in the fullness of time, even if that means millions, billions, or trillions of centuries after it's been destroyed.

Last edited by ARM3481; 03-03-2013 at 10:11 PM..
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  #362  
Old 03-04-2013, 04:23 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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Things I'd still like to see:

- Azshara and Neptulon storyline, with both being villains, and not us helping one or the other. But they both oppose each other as well.

- More on the Nerubians and Bolvar

- More in-depth lore/expansions on the Old Gods, that particularly solely focuses on them

- Burning Legion storyline of course, Titans tie in as well

- Illidan returning and it done in a believable manner

- A new purpose given to the Dragonflights, possibly integrate them with the Alliance/Horde more closely, or create a story with them looking to reconnect with the titans for power back, or something else.

- More general lore, expand the world. Let's take more of a look at the South Sea Pirates. The other Goblin Trade Princes. More info taken from the RPG books and updated to be viable in the current storyline, and put forth in the game. It's a roleplaying game, it doesn't always have to be a super important issue we're dealing, it could just be an extremely personal quest because of curiosity or something. For example, instead of poop quests, we'd get something that made us learn more about Tinkers.

That's all for now.
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  #363  
Old 03-04-2013, 08:43 PM
Temo Temo is offline

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I think Wrathion is doing most of the stuff Blizzard had planned for Med'an, before they "scrapped" him.
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  #364  
Old 03-04-2013, 08:47 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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I think Wrathion is doing most of the stuff Blizzard had planned for Med'an, before they "scrapped" him.
Maybe, but the tone is darker. Med'an wouldn't have done many of the things Wrathion did.
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  #365  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:37 AM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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I expected something... different, judging by the second panel.
Pervert. >:V
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  #366  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:49 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
My brother is playing through wc3 and he's on the level when Grom is fighting against the forces of Cenarius and Cenarius says "I have defeated your kind in ages past, and I will do so again!".

What the hell is he talking about? Is it just big talk for the sake of big talk? Does he think they're demons?
Most likely.
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  #367  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:00 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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What the hell is he talking about? Is it just big talk for the sake of big talk? Does he think they're demons?


They sure looked like demons. I'm sure their brutality played a big part too.
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  #368  
Old 03-05-2013, 05:59 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Did he pierce his arm with sharp bones?
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  #369  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:02 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Did he pierce his arm with sharp bones?
Looks like it. Trolls and goblins do it too.
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  #370  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:03 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Did he pierce his arm with sharp bones?
Yes, he is that badass.
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  #371  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:10 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
My brother is playing through wc3 and he's on the level when Grom is fighting against the forces of Cenarius and Cenarius says "I have defeated your kind in ages past, and I will do so again!".

What the hell is he talking about? Is it just big talk for the sake of big talk? Does he think they're demons?
*looks at Shivarra and Succubi*

Not that unlikely

Didn't he fight against high elves though?
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  #372  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:11 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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*looks at Shivarra and Succubi*

Not that unlikely

Didn't he fight against high elves though?
Nope. When would he have had time to do that?
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  #373  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:38 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Nope. When would he have had time to do that?
Badasses aren't tied to the rules of time and space.
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  #374  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:41 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Nope. When would he have had time to do that?
When he first encountered night elves Grom mentioned that they were like 'elves' but taller and fiercer(or something like that) which implies he fought high elves at some point. 'Course you could be talking about something else and I'm just too lazy to think but eh.
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  #375  
Old 03-05-2013, 06:45 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Royalpimp View Post
When he first encountered night elves Grom mentioned that they were like 'elves' but taller and fiercer(or something like that) which implies he fought high elves at some point. 'Course you could be talking about something else and I'm just too lazy to think but eh.
I think we were talking about the races Cenarius fought.
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